Do you ever wonder what people will say about you when you’re no longer here on this planet? Or even how other people see you now? How much does it matter to you, what you’re known for? And if you could leave a lasting legacy, what would it be?
Sarah:
Welcome to the Spirit of Business, episode number 89. What do you want to be known for with Matt Murphy and Sarah McCrumb.
Matt:
Hi Sarah.
Sarah:
Hi Matt.
Matt:
I had an experience the other night. I was out for dinner and we’re having a bit of a chat, some friends and I, and we’re talking about just people and things. And somebody said they described another person as being, oh, that person’s super smart. I go, oh, that’s interesting. And then I thought to myself, that’s probably something that people wouldn’t say about me as a, as a thing that they wouldn’t say he’s a super smart guy or something like that. And then I started to think about, you know, labels that we put on ourselves and on each other. And then somebody then spoke about that person as being a great golfer. Okay. And so we described people and then we attach a label to that particular person. And I was listening to the conversation with intrigue and just assessing what was actually happening. And then I started to reflect further the next day about saying when you, because I also had a funeral that I attended. And when you go to funerals or when you hear about people passing away in the media, they’ll also describe and put a label on people. And they typically don’t say that person was a super smart person in their life. They say something like, you know, great family man, or, you know, devoted mother to children or, you know, a loving relationship sort of thing. So they’re speaking more of them, more of people in terms of, I suppose, relationships rather than them as a person of what their talent is. And I think it just started to get me to thinking about the concept of coming, talking about purpose, but in a different way. So, you know, we often talk about in this podcast and in conversations we had about, what’s your purpose? What’s the purpose of your business, what’s the purpose of you as an individual? And then I was looking at it from the perspective of a label, and then I was starting to think about it in terms of life work and what you were known for when you’re passing. And all these start thought thoughts came into my head about, well, what am I known for? And we’ve had conversations about that historically as well. But it’s just a, it’s just a really interesting thing to start to break down the labels that we put in ourselves, on each other, on our businesses, and the way we perceive ourselves compared to the way that other people perceive ourselves. What do we want to be known for compared to what we don’t want to be known for? And it was just a really interesting thought process that I wouldn’t mind sort of just talking further about today and getting a different perspective from it, from your perspective on how you say it as well.
Sarah:
And what comes to me immediately is that different people and different groups of people would put different labels. I said to you a little bit earlier today, I’m going to embarrass you now, but amongst my clients, it’s either Matt’s gorgeous or Matt’s lovely, but I’m sure amongst your clients, that’s probably not the words that they would use because I don’t know, it’s a different group of people. I’m sure that they think that you’re a lovely person, but I’m not sure that they would go around expressing it like that. When I met some of the people that they’re not necessarily people you hang out with a lot, but it was a group you were associated with. They were more like describing you as special or different. Like you stand out from the crowd. That was their perception of you. My clients think you’re gorgeous. Your clients probably think you’re a really reliable person, who they can, you know, who will stand beside them. I’m putting ideas into their mind. I don’t know. It’s, it’s a funny thing to think about.
Matt:
It is. So what you’re then describing is that you can be different things for different people or labeled differently. You’re not going to necessarily carry the same label all the way through your life and probably not the same label from the same people. You might get it from different people is what you’re really saying there. And I suppose that starts to conjure up to say, well, what is it that we want to be known for? You know, what is it that we’re trying to achieve in our lives is where my mind starts to go to.
Sarah:
Yeah. And that’s actually a challenging question to answer. Like, what do you want to be known for? Do you know what you want to be known for?
Matt:
It’s interesting, I was having a conversation about this with another friend of mine and I was talking about him and I said, you know, would you prefer to be known as a really good businessman, an entrepreneur or somebody who was a loving father and devoted to his family or, you know, all of the above, so to speak. And I suppose that you know, it’s one of those things where, you know where I joked and said, well, what we, you can come up with is to say, he was a fantastic entrepreneur that created so much wealth that really supported his family and, and was a loving father at the same time. So therefore put it all into one sentence, so to speak.
Sarah:
Did he say what he would want?
Matt:
No, he didn’t. He didn’t sort of and we just joked about it. Because I tried to put it all into one sentence and we just laughed and then just went on to the next conversation that we were having. But I think it’s, and I think the answer is probably where I came to us is putting it all together to say, well, it’s not just one thing. It’s, you would like to be known for multiple things that, and this is that balance thing that you say, well, you know, if you were good at business, for example and you are good at sport and you are good at relationships and you are good at being, being a father and you or a mother and you were good at being, you kind of want to feel that you were good at all these things or known for all these things without the compromise of something else that’s very meaningful that will, that people see as meaningful as well. So I think it was kind of this balance thing, but then maybe that’s just my lens, because I think because I value the balance, I value making sure you’re not being focused on one thing without thinking about the detriment or the cause of the effect of something else. So maybe that’s what I value is the, is the balance.
Sarah:
I mean, I wouldn’t like to, it doesn’t really make sense to me to say this. I was going to say, I wouldn’t like to kind of achieve my purpose and be a terrible wife. But on the other hand, my purpose, I couldn’t achieve it being a terrible wife, if you see what I mean. Like, it’s part, like my relationships are a part of my purpose. So it doesn’t, it wouldn’t make sense to even imagine that that’s like having the wrong purpose. To me, if you have a purpose that allows you to be a horrible person like, you know, maybe sometimes I’m not easy or I’m difficult, but that’s not my intention to be like that. That’s just me, you know, struggling a little bit with situations. So the purpose, the purpose to me is important. Like, what am I, what am I trying to do? What am I creating? I don’t know. Because when I’m dead, I don’t, I don’t know if it matters whether I’m known for it or not. What matters is did things get done that were valuable?
Matt:
Yeah, that’s right. But I suppose some people can be fixated on achieving certain things that may not be in that balance that you’re talking about that you can’t achieve without the relationships aspect of it. That, that they wanted to create something in the science world or in the business world or, you know, they, they could be you know, wanting to be in the you know, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, so to speak. Okay. And could they do that and be a horrible person to all the relationships that they’ve got in their life? They could be is the point. So it still comes down to the individual in wanting to, and what they see as valuable to them in terms of, well, I value relationships, so therefore I’d like to be known as being good at relationships and being a good person in relationships, for example, if that’s what you want to be known for. And if you’re not known for that, you probably feel like a sense of failure. If that was my focus and I didn’t actually get known for that, therefore does that mean I didn’t fulfill what I was ultimately trying to achieve?
Sarah:
So it makes me question what you mean by being known for something. Like if you think no, I’m a really great husband and father and your kids never want to speak to you again. There’s clearly a mismatch there.
Matt:
That makes sure you haven’t achieved it. That’s the point that I was just making then. You haven’t achieved what you set out to achieve if you want to be something, but then the result is you didn’t get there. So when I’m talking about what do you want to be known for, it is coming back to the, where we started with this concept of people judging you and putting a label on you. And that’s what you’re known for. You’re known for being the smart, yeah that’s what people say about you. Now people, some people are going to say different things about you depending on their lens like you spoke about before, about whether it’s your clients, your wife, your children, your you know, suppliers, your friends, all that sort of type thing. Everybody’s going to have potentially a subset or a different angle to it. But I still think it’s really important to reflect on these things, to stop and go, well what is it? First of all, I need to work out what it is. And secondly, you know, assessing how people would judge you based on that particular frame.
Sarah:
It’s interesting. My mother is a sculptor, quite a successful sculptor, and she always says, you don’t decide whether you’re an artist or not. You can create sculpture or you can paint or draw or whatever you do, but other people decide whether you’re an artist. Because for her artist is not an activity, it’s an activity with quality. There’s a kind of quality assigned to it. For me, I don’t know whether I’m naive or, but I, I feel like my job is to do the best I can with my purpose, with the things that I’m all about. And it’s entirely up to other people what they think about that. Obviously, if I get feedback from people, where I think I’m doing something well and they say no, it’s not working for us, that’s part of me trying to do the best I can. That feedback becomes a part of it. But what other people think of me, I know it’s easy to be affected by it, but I don’t see any value in being affected by it. I think we’re affected by it just because we’ve kind of been brought up to think that it matters what other people think about us.
Matt:
Yeah. Probably that’s probably not what my angle is that I’m affected by it, it’s just probably what people, maybe that comes down to the value of the contribution that you’re making because people actually say, well, you’re making a contribution because like, you know, I could describe you as a teacher. Okay? So, you know, therefore you’re an educator and you teach people wisdom effectively. And now you could be a good teacher or a bad teacher, but effectively like your, your mother could be a good artist or a bad artist sort of type thing. But, but you’re, but you are something. Okay. So it can be, you can be at that sort of functional type role and then, and then people can actually judge your, you know, she was a good teacher. Okay. Or remember I said that person was described as being super smart. Okay, so everybody has intelligence, but this person was classified as being super smart. So therefore it’s almost like you’re elevated up into a higher status of uniqueness when people say, oh, Sarah was a, is a, an amazing teacher. Okay, so therefore it’s, that’s a different statement than it is that Sarah was a teacher. And I think that yes you can, I’m not suggesting that we get caught up on it as individuals because that would mean that we need it. It’s more of saying, well, ah, it’s validation that the contribution that I’m making is seeing in this particular way is that, I think there’s something in that.
Sarah:
Yeah, it’s interesting. Maybe I’m missing something. I don’t know. Like I, it’s like I’m not feeling it yet. Or maybe I’ve switched off. I’ve deliberately switched off from that. I don’t, I want to do what I’m doing. And yeah, I, I think feedback is really useful. I don’t want, I’m, I’m not sure that I want to be validated, but I don’t, not sure that I want my work to be validated by other people. I want it to provide value for not, it’s not going to be for everybody, but for some people. Yeah, I, it’s interesting experience talking about it because, yeah.
Matt:
That is an interesting experience. And, and maybe, and really I wasn’t necessarily talking about it in terms to, to say that, that we get validated. I was probably coming from a different angle to say, we often, often get caught up in thinking about our purpose and thinking about business and thinking about what our purpose in business and what our purpose is as an individual. And sometimes, and I know that this has been difficult for me to answer over the years about individual purpose. And so therefore it was just a different way of thinking, a different question that I’m asking about what do I, what, what do people know me as or want to know me as. Does that give you a clue as to what somehow what your contribution and purpose is to the world? So it’s kind of coming from a different angle.
Sarah:
There could be something interesting, like if you think that this is what you are doing, but other people see it quite differently. That, that’s quite an interesting experience. I think that might have happened to me to some extent. I think there’s other people who’ve gradually made me aware of certain things that I was doing that I wouldn’t have claimed for myself. Or I wouldn’t have possibly even known that I was doing those things. So other people actually kind of made me admit more than I would admit myself. And it can go the other way as well. It can be that you know, that I think that I’m doing amazing at something and other people give me feedback that shows that I’m not nearly as amazing as I think I am. But in my case, I would say it’s been more the other way around that there have been times when the feedback that I’ve got, so what other people see me as rather than what I see myself as has been more than I would’ve probably even allowed myself to see.
Matt:
Yeah, it’s interesting because where the conversation’s gone to is more about the validation of contribution that you’re making as opposed to where I was starting the conversation, which is around saying, well what, what is our, what is our contribution? What do we want to be known for? And then where it’s moving into us to say is, is that right? That’s what we are known for because of what we want to be and what we seem to be is, is probably where the issue lies, which is what you just discussed then to say, well, what I think I am and what other people see me as is sometimes there’s a disconnect between the two.
Sarah:
Yeah. And people sometimes ask, I remember years ago, somebody saying, what do you want to be known for? I think we were supposed to have a kind of handle, like Sarah’s the something person. She’s the, and people were all putting these kind of handles on themselves. I wasn’t very good at that exercise, it didn’t probably make a lot of sense to me. I’m trying to find the context in which it really makes sense to ask that question. What do you want to be known for?
Matt:
It is, it’s really interesting because I actually don’t, I like you probably struggle to answer it as well. Like, I don’t, I wouldn’t, you know, when you describe me before from different people in different groups, none of it really connects with me to be quite honest. Like, I don’t sort of feel that that’s who I am or what I am, you know, here for. But it, it was just interesting to get people’s view about who I am as an individual, which is, which is nice because nobody said is a rotten bloke. So I like that, that’s a good starting point. Because I’d hate to think that that’s what the case would be, but it’s lovely to think that I’m known for good things. And that’s validating to know that you’re on the right path. But I just want to understand, or just trying to understand as to, to saying, well, is this even a thing? Or should you even worry about it? Or should you still be, just focused on why do you, what is your purpose and what you’re trying to achieve and what you are whether people know you for that, or I don’t know you for that, doesn’t really matter as long as that’s what you feel like you are doing or achieving.
Sarah:
Well, it can matter. It can definitely matter if people, if you need to be known in order to achieve what you are achieving, then that might not be that you need to be known for, but you may need to be known. That’s for sure. Like I had to accept at a certain point that I couldn’t do what I want to do and completely hide. I have to be out in the public, I have to be known. And that was a decision I had to make the decision that I’m willing to accept that. Because when I was younger I always said I didn’t want to do that. Yeah, this is so interesting. It’s not often that I have this feeling like yeah, is it just a non-question? Because this is a common question. What do you want to be known for? He was known for this, she was known for that. I’m still veering towards the, that’s for other people to decide. And that when business owners try to decide that for themselves, it that’s like, that’s not the bit that they should be doing. I’m going in that direction at the moment, but I don’t know if I’m right either.
Matt:
So therefore if you, if I asked you the different question around saying what is your purpose, value, and contribution to the world, would you be able to answer that better than what do you want to be known for? So what is that?
Sarah:
Yes. Liberation of the human spirit?
Matt:
There you go. So therefore that is what your purpose is. Now, if somebody described you that as, you know, the, that’s what you were known for in past tense, so to speak, or known or current tense. Okay. There’s an alignment between what you’re known for and what you, what your goal and contribution and purpose is. So is it really, is it the same thing as a question and one is just somebody else’s view compared to your view? It’s a judgment of it.
Sarah:
Clearly it’s a, if they align, that’s a good thing. Because apart from anything else, you don’t have to think about the question like, ooh, that’s a relief. You know, if I take you as the example, I just see that different people know you for different things anyway. So I can say those nice words. They have a very deep meaning to me. It’s something that I’m working on. It’s something that I know if I said those words, people would say, oh yeah, that’s kind of the sort of thing Sarah does. They might not use those words themselves to describe me, but some of what they describe would be quite similar probably. And some would be really different. To be known for it like, to me it’s more important to get it done than it is to be known for it.
Sarah:
Sometimes you need to be known for something in order to get it done. But if that got done, if there was really like I, I was able to contribute to people really being able to free their spirit to experience that kind of inner freedom. Lots and lots of people and I wasn’t known for it, but there was a lot of it. That would be amazing to be known for it. The only thing it adds to me is that it enables, it probably enables more of it to be done because people find you. So it’s more of a business, it’s more like a kind of marketing thing than, but to be known for it as a human being, I don’t know. I just don’t how important that is.
Matt:
Yeah. And the other thing that was running through my head was that what you might be known for as, you know, as a teacher, for example, just if you put a label on a functional thing that you do compared to when people pass away and they’re known for something, you know, they don’t, they might say that, you know, you’re a teacher, but they’ll probably more talk about known for being you know, they more talk about this, this relationship aspect or known for being a really happy, vibrant, caring. They’re all those sorts of things that come up.
Sarah:
I think that’s just to make the family happy. Like they say that about people who’ve had affairs and who’ve been, I mean seriously they say that about everybody regardless of how they’ve behaved.
Matt:
That’s right.
Sarah:
That’s politeness. I don’t think that has any, very much validity. I’m sure it has some validity. Some people are lovely people. And, but honestly, I’m not,
Matt:
But what is that? But why do people do that then?
Sarah:
Because we’re terrified. We’re absolutely terrified of any ugly bits of truth coming out. And so we all put this beautiful gloss over our lives because we’ve hidden so much all the way through our lives. The last thing we want is anything to come out after we are dead. So it’s like, let’s continue the gloss. The dead person doesn’t mind at all. It really doesn’t matter to them. But the family probably do mind because they want to, you know, we’re so invested in what other people think about us, which is the kind of shadow side of this conversation. And we’re so invested in hiding our horrible little secrets and things on the whole that by the time we get to popping over to the other side, we probably don’t want, you know, we don’t want anyone to say, oh he was actually a crotchety old something. But you know, for the last five years, which is very often true you know, people are not always their best in the years and months before they die. But we don’t like to say that. I think that that’s part of the lie that we all tell ourselves. We don’t like to reveal what’s actually going on with us. And we’re taught that from a very early age. I just think that’s actually part of not a very healthy human society.
Matt:
Is it like going back to that old story, you know, don’t speak ill of the dead?
Sarah:
Well it connects with that. Yes. Yeah. It connects with that and it’s like what? Maybe they’re going to come and punish you or something, or maybe you don’t want anyone to speak ill of you after you are dead.
Matt:
Yeah, exactly. I have watched some just recent fictional movies and television shows where there has been funeral scenes and people have actually said it like it is saying that he wasn’t a very nice person or he was a pain in the backside or whatever it actually is. So it’s nice to see maybe some of the truths that have come out, but typically it ends up with but he did his best or he tried or he, you know, he was good at this particular aspect of it. So it is just, yeah, it’s really interesting when you start to really because these are, these are summations of our life. This is what we’re really saying. Well what was the summary of your life? What was the contribution? What was the high from between your dates on your tombstone, what did you actually do and contribute and value that you created?
Sarah:
But that’s a bit like history, isn’t it? You know, we write history. When I was at school, we did history. It seemed so utterly irrelevant to me that I opted out of it as soon as possible because it was a series of dates with men killing each other and having, you know winning something that was all it was in those days. It like, I couldn’t just couldn’t understand what it was about. Couldn’t relate to it at all. Other people are fascinated by all of that stuff. But you know, then it, to me, I don’t think you could ever sum up a life because a life is a series of moments where there’s so much going on in any moment that why would you even try to sum it up? I understand if you’ve got to make a nice speech, you need to say some nice things about a person. But really and truly when we try to make a, we can tell stories, but one of the things I notice as I gain years is there are simply more and more stories and where a 25 year old can write their story. You know, like when you have to write for your business, what’s your story or your origin story, they can do that really easily because there’s only one or two stories there. There are so many stories that you can write when you get a bit older and you can choose from. But even those stories are just an edited tiny little perspective on something that you’ve kind of produced for other people, you know, to entertain other people. That’s totally valid, but it’s not your life.
Matt:
No, but it’s a body of work that you’ve produced, which has made a contribution.
Sarah:
Most people don’t produce a body of work. Are they contributing less? I just think some of us are body of work people and some people are, you know, mums and dads and some people are they’re doing other things.
Matt:
But I even said that they’re making, but their body of work like a mother who’s, you know, say full-time looking after the kids and all that sort of stuff. So it doesn’t necessarily have a contribution in a workplace environment sort of type thing. But because the home is their workplace, their body of work fundamentally is a children that they’re, they’re raising. So to speak. So therefore, so therefore from that perspective, I see everybody has a body of work no matter what position or title or whatever they’re doing, they typically are producing something of value and making some sort of contribution to the world. In business we probably just have a greater platform and a greater ability to create a bigger body of work maybe, but not necessarily more important than raising a child, for example. But it is a body of work.
Sarah:
Absolutely, I totally agree with you. We’re better at putting levels around it.
Matt:
Yes, we’re probably better
Sarah:
Because you have to in business. You have no choice in business if you don’t put labels around it. And if you don’t tell stories about it, nobody ever knows about it. And then your business is not successful
Matt:
And therefore you are able to sort of put some sort of a, you know, your testimonials or your case studies or your stories and that sort of type of stuff. You can sort of pick the ones that are good ones. Whereas if you’re a parent and you’ve got a child, basically you’re going to be judged based on the, you know, the, the production of that child’s output, you know, later on in life as well. So therefore you haven’t had the ability to,
Sarah:
If your child ends up an alcoholic or something, were you a bad parent?
Matt:
No, not necessarily.
Sarah:
Now who knows what’s playing into that. So the more we talk about it, the more I can feel that there’s a sort of avoidance of going to what do you want to be known for. Because it limits, it limits who I am in the eyes of other people and in the eyes of myself. And I’m more and more tempted to let other people know me for whatever they want. They can put whatever labels they want if they feel that it’s useful to put labels on. And for me, I’m clear about what I’m doing and what I want to do and why I am doing it and sharing that with others. I think it’s really important to get feedback as you go along. That’s absolutely a part of it. I’m still not willing to say what I want to be known for.
Matt:
And I think that is a hundred percent reasonable because as you say, I believe it’s limiting in terms of if you are only known for one thing, for example, I don’t see why you can’t be known for multiple things. It’s just probably a label. Trying to succinctly put a label on something that you really shouldn’t put a small succinct label on because it hopefully it’s a rich body of work over a course of a life that actually transcends lots of different, you know, labels and things that you’ve actually achieved as part of, you know, to simplify it down to a label or a thing is, as you say, I think it is limiting and therefore it’s not necessarily useful at the end of the day either.
Sarah:
So one thing that people sometimes say about people is like, he really lived or he lived his life to the full. If you could really say that, that would be a nice thing, you know, for somebody to say, yeah, she lived her life to the full. But if I’m honest, I can look back on some of my younger years, I don’t think I was living my life to the full, so it wouldn’t be true. I’ve got better at it and it’s a nice idea. But would it really be true?
Matt:
I’m smiling because of the fact that usually when people say they lived their life to the full, they’ve done some pretty outrageous things in their life. And they probably just, once again in a eulogy situation sort of saying it was a, like all they say is a character, you know, they say all these things or you know, the word interesting or unique, you know, all those sorts of labels start to come out to describe behavior that’s probably not kosher with what we were speaking about before in terms of being a in inverted commas as a good person or a wonderful person, so to speak. So yeah, I think you’re right though in the purest form of saying lived a great, lived a life, you know, lived a full life, you know, you’re starting to say, well, he explored lots of things, made lots of contributions you know, didn’t limit themselves to a particular thing. So it becomes a fuller experience is what I’m hearing, rather than a limited experience.
Sarah:
Yes. I think for me the richness of life, which might be simple, it doesn’t have to be that you do a lot of things. It might be some people do a lot of things to live a full life. Other people experience a lot of fullness in quite simple things. I think there are many ways that you can do that, but to feel that life is really worth living that’s, but that’s for me, my personal experience. Like whether other people know me for that, do I really care? Maybe, maybe not.
Matt:
Well you only care based on what saying before to ensure that you are getting feedback on what you’re actually doing to ensure that, not labeling, but just at least you’re getting some feedback on saying, well, is this really making the contribution that I wanted to make in terms of what I’m doing?
Sarah:
Yeah, I mean, I suppose the thing that you do have to look at is, and perhaps is where it really shows up is supposing I’m putting myself out there teaching this, whatever it is, and actually everybody knows me as like, oh no, she’s really horrible and she doesn’t do any of the things she says. That wouldn’t be a good situation. So from there you can see that there is some value in it. Just, I mean, that would be very useful feedback if I’m extremely unpleasant. It does tell you that there’s, there’s something in there, something in there.
Matt:
Well, there’s no alignment and therefore no integrity for what you’re really saying that you are putting yourself out there to be and actually achieving. So the commitment and the, and the implementation, the achievement are in alignment.
Sarah:
Yep, exactly. So I think alignment is a more important thing. Alignment really gives satisfaction and it makes it much easier to have that kind of rich or fulfilling life experience. And it’s likely that people will know you for things that at least feel aligned. They might know you for different aspects of your life, but they feel aligned with who you are as a human being. That feels like if we really just focus on the fact that there’s a human being in the middle of this, then that feels good to me.
Matt:
And sometimes you receive labels through other people’s insecurities as well. And so you end up with a label because you know, there’s a jealousy element associated with it. So, you know, and that’s the other thing that we have to be conscious of and that’s why I don’t get caught up in labels either. It was just, sparked the thought process more, that conversation over dinner about the fact that we do label and it’s about, well, you know, what do we, what do we do with that? And I think it’s been a good conversation today. So well, don’t worry about the label, still come back to what the purpose and contribution is. Make sure you’re getting some feedback along the way to say there’s an alignment piece there. But don’t get too caught up with the whole he was known or she was known for x. That’s really what I’m hearing from this conversation.
Sarah:
Yeah, we can check out each other’s eulogies maybe from the other side. Who knows, see how it worked out.
Matt:
Or we end up writing each other’s, I don’t know, at some point in time. Whoever goes first. There you go. Well, it’s been an interesting conversation and one that we probably you know, it was one of those ones where it, you know, I think some of these conversations that we have, which are great, go for in all different directions, but hopefully what they ultimately do is just spark some thoughts for people to go, oh, okay, that’s an interesting concept and, and how do I feel about it? And I think that’s really important to do that because, what I like to do is create space for people to then think about things and not necessarily give the answers, but for them to come to their own conclusions on the answers. And I think these are the good conversations to have.
Sarah:
Exactly.
Sarah:
Well thank you Matt.
Matt:
Thanks Sarah.
Sarah:
You’ve been listening to the Spirit of Business with Matt Murphy and Sarah McCrumb. If you’d like some insight into the spirit in which you do business, a great place to start is by looking at your relationship with money. Find out more by taking the Money scorecard@moneyscorecards.app and we’ll be back next week.
