If your business has a big purpose or a powerful mission, you may find yourself feeling very small at times. It can be daunting to face major world challenges, large numbers, unethical competitors or a significant and sizeable goal. So how can you manage your own feelings when facing your noble goal?
Sarah:
Welcome to the Spirit of Business, episode number 93. Do you ever feel small in your business? With Matt Murphy and Sarah McCrumb.
Matt:
Hi Sarah.
Sarah:
Hi Matt.
Matt:
I’ve heard you say recently a couple of times now about feeling small in business or feeling small with whatever you’re actually currently experiencing at the moment. And it’s an interesting set of words that you say, feeling small and I try to understand what you’re actually meaning by I feel small. Does it kind of mean that you feel overawed or what is it that is, that sort of feeling small thing? And it’s, it’s something that you’ve said a couple of times that I’d really like to talk to about. Hopefully you’re okay with me talking about, you know, that particular emotion because I’m sure there’s some vulnerability in that, in that, in that statement. And so, I’d like to really, I know, use this time to talk about it because it’s a term that I don’t really feel familiar with, but maybe I do. And they’re just different words that you use that I might use in a different way. Maybe.
Sarah:
Thank you. Thank you for asking about it. Yeah, I have heard myself using those words and it’s different from perhaps how I used to feel small. Like I can still sometimes feel small, just like, oh, I’m no good at business type of thing. And we’ve talked about that before in a podcast a long time ago. But this is a different feeling. This is the feeling that there is something that I’m a part of through business, through both the two businesses that I’m involved with that is so huge. And so it is overawed in a way, it’s like, oh my goodness, what, what’s possible because of this? Or what I would love to see happen because of this? I do talk about it, so I’m not going to say I wouldn’t even want to talk about it in public. I’ve had that experience at times where it’s like, I can’t say what I really feel because it’ll sound too big or something, but I don’t feel that anymore. But sometimes I feel really small in the sense of, it’s not that I don’t know what to do next or I don’t what to do because I kind of know that I don’t know what to do. And I live with that with, this sense of things emerging. I think this is a very common feeling for people who are in a very purpose led business, where you often have the feeling that what you are doing is much bigger than you. That you are being led by it almost rather than you leading it. And yet you have to be a leader in that space. At the same time you have to make decisions, but you often feel like I, I’ve talked about this with many people. It’s like, oh my goodness, what we are doing? There’s something else going on. It’s not, it’s not in my control now, of course life is never in our control, but it’s a bigger feeling of that and that’s what makes me sometimes feel small. The other thing that makes me feel small is very large numbers. That’s something that would be easier for you, I imagine. But I realize that I don’t necessarily really engage perhaps with the very large numbers that are on the way to becoming very real. So I’m involved in these conversations nowadays with people. There’s probably, like the smallness is many angles of smallness. I think that’s what I’m trying to say. I’m involved in conversations with people who are doing things and I’m literally thinking, how did I end up in this conversation? How I, how did I end up here in my life? So almost like I can’t track from where I was 10 or 20 years ago to where I am now. It’s so, it’s kind of amazing. So I feel small in that regard. There’s also a smallness that I, I love, I actually love to feel like you, you talked in one podcast about being an ordinary bloke. I love the feeling of it’s just me, it’s little old Sarah, kind of like, she’s just this person. She’s just her thing. She loves doing her thing and there’s no, no pretenses, no defenses, nothing. I’m just me doing me. That’s the good bit of it. That’s what I love.
Matt:
Is there a negative aspect of it then too? Like, I get this, when you say feeling small, small kind of has a negative connotation you just talked about in a positive light. Does the smallness actually stop you from doing something? Is there, like, does it cause there to be, almost being paralyzed and saying, well I’m, this is too big for me. I’m too small so therefore I can’t do X and therefore I’m not going to do anything about it. And then shrinking back into yourself and your vulnerability. Is there, is there an element of that involved in it?
Sarah:
There might be a hidden element of it. I used to do that a lot. I would look at something, it’s like, oh, I don’t know how to do that. And then step back. I don’t feel that now. I feel now more, it’s more like the feeling of having to step forward even though you feel that small, I don’t have the option to step back. I have to keep going forward. But I’m, it’s, it’s a bit like walking in the dark quite a bit of the time. The other thing that really happens to me, and I think this is this, this one I’m, I am familiar with and this is definitely not a good place, is if I think that it’s on my shoulders. Like I’ve somehow got to do this. There’s no way. There’s no way. And I have to remind myself all the time that first of all there’s a huge community of people who are part of it and want to help and will enable things that are beyond me. I think I sometimes feel limited by my own history. It’s like I know how to do what I know how to do and I probably know how to grow that organically, but I, there are pieces which are completely missing for me. They’re so missing that I don’t even know how to ask for what I want. And I have to remind myself that other people might even know what the question is that I need to ask. I don’t need to know all of that. If I don’t know it, I don’t know it. And it’s okay. Sometimes it feels like I’m not sure if it’s okay. Maybe I’m supposed to be like all capable and I can’t, I just can’t.
Matt:
So that’s the word that I was singing the word capable. Do you feel that you are sometimes not feeling capable of being in the situation and therefore contributing at the appropriate level? Is that the smallness?
Sarah:
I definitely do feel that at times, I see my own weaknesses. I’ve had a lot of experience in my life of seeing my own blind spots in a way. Like that’s a contradiction in terms, but I’ve had people point my blind spots out to me so often.
Matt:
That’s comfortable
Sarah:
That was never comfortable. But if you train with a Chinese master like I did, there’s no escape. It’s like comfortable or not, she couldn’t care less. She’s just going to tell you. So I definitely feel edges to my capability and I have to kind of take a deep breath and say, you know what, there are other people around you who are really good at that and they’re really, they’re willing to help you, Sarah. I think some of it comes from that sort of feeling like, uh, maybe, you know, I didn’t probably used to like to receive help very easily and I have to remember that other people believe in what I believe in and they want to help make it happen too. And so they’re willing to make up for things. Like, I’m constantly questioning this thing like, I don’t know how to say it, it’s like I, I just know that I’m never going to be this perfect version of what I think I’m supposed to be. And I feel like a bit, shaky around the edges, so, and I can’t find the right word for it. I just don’t feel reliable enough. I’d like to be super reliable and super dependable and super this and super that. And the honest truth is I’m not always, sometimes I feel like I’m a bit dippy, you know, it’s like I’m not, I feel like, oh, I’m not like Matt. He’s just like, so he’s like a rock and you know, my husband is like a rock in me and I feel like I Oh, you’re spontaneous Sarah. And sometimes, I’m not really away with the fairies, but I, because I’m not really a fairy. I love fairies but I’m not really away with the fairy kind of person. Yeah. But I just, maybe I don’t really trust myself in a way to be, to be enough.
Matt:
Which is very vulnerable and very honest that you say all that sort of stuff because other people would have the confidence to actually just explain and verbalize exactly what you’ve done. And there’s a lot in that.
Sarah:
Well I feel, I’m almost exploring it as I speak because I haven’t really put the language around it either. So you asking me the question is kind of pulling all this stuff out. So I, so I’m kind of experimenting a bit through speaking.
Matt:
Which is great. One of the things that, that came to mind and I’d like to understand further, which is about the masculine-feminine energy. Cause you just mentioned a minute ago, that you said, like you said two people which are more like you said, solid and capable and rocks. And you said me, right? And you also said your husband Niko now that we’re two men at the end of the day.
Sarah:
At the beginning of the day too.
Matt:
And so then you look at that and you say, well, is there, is the masculine, are you talking about masculine and feminine energy that the feminine energy has a different role and a different rhythm and a different way about it that you are comparing yourself to your, your feminine energy with a masculine energy? Is there anything that, that resonates with that particular aspect of what we’re talking about?
Sarah:
I suspect so because I feel more emotional charge than I would realize, or would expect around that question. I think, especially since I came to Australia, I’ve mentioned this to you many times, I’ve been really shocked at how invisible I can feel sometimes here. And I never felt invisible in my life before as a child. I was one of three girls and my father paid me lots of attention and I was always a leader and I never felt that. And I came here and it’s not something I can even explain because you can’t explain something to people who can’t see it, if you see what I mean. And then it feels like, oh that’s ridiculous Sarah. You know, you have, and I know that the people even that I sometimes feel invisible with, trust me and value me more than just about anyone else in my life and in their life. So it doesn’t make any sense, but it’s there. And I feel, one of the things I’ve come to realize, this is really strange for me because in a way I’ve always been quite a masculine woman. I’m not particularly feminine, but the energy and the way of working that I have is very feminine. I realize, especially in the business Love To, that I’m involved with. Like there’s a real masculine-feminine partnership there. Tim, my business partner does all the science, all the finance, all of that stuff. And what do I do? I do the kind of spirit and the love and the, all the things that I care about, but they’re the absolutely intangible parts of the business. And I know the interesting thing is that with saying all of this, I know also that what I bring, I, I know the value of what I do so I can both know the value of it and feel small at the same time.
Matt:
That’s interesting. I’ve actually figured out something because I didn’t feel, as I said, I didn’t necessarily feel the understanding of the word small, but since we’ve been having the conversation, in my business over the many years, I had a business partner for 15 years or so and he was very technical in terms of, in our space. And I was probably very people orientated. And so therefore we actually had a sort of an, an energy that, but in, in the profession that I’m in, in the accounting and tax space and business space, professionals always rate knowledge superior to anything else. And so because I wasn’t the smartest person in their room in terms of knowing every section of the legislation or whatever, you know, people valued, then I sometimes felt like that my contribution to the business wasn’t valued as high as the contribution. Because in, in our, in our world, knowledge of facts and figures and data and information and solutions is valued very, very highly. And I, which I understand it’s very, very needed, but the people side of the fence is without the people and without sort of the, the heart of the business, so to speak, the business wouldn’t have achieved what it ultimately achieved. And you are talking the same thing in your business with Love To with Tim, is that you feel that your contribution isn’t seen maybe by the, the world has been as valuable as the science and the data and the finances and all that sort of type things. So, but whether that’s inside of us or whether that’s what other people see and value, that’s, that’s the thing that I’ve, I’ve sort of had an interesting relationship with over the years. I’m at peace with that now. Because I see the contribution that I make without it, you know, this business wouldn’t have achieved what it had achieved without that heart and soul. And certainly I still understood, you know, numbers and facts and figures and, and, but just probably not at the same level. And so from that perspective, I, I get that maybe it’s the, the value that we’re contributing, um, in that, that makes us feel a bit smaller than what we otherwise would feel because we aren’t the person that’s the solid facts and figures, data led strong leader because it’s all about that masculine aspect to it. If you want to put masculine energy on those particular things as opposed to the heart, the people, the soul, the relationships, the care, the love, the support that sits over here has probably got some feminine qualities associated with feminine energy associated with it. Maybe that’s where the parallels lie in relation to that. And you, you mentioned before about, you said that you’re a, you have masculine energy, but you obviously bring a, a female, a feminine energy to, to the businesses. And we’ve had this conversation before where I feel like I have a lot of feminine energy around sort of people and heart and soul. Yet you tell me often that I act in a very masculine way sometimes in terms of the way that I operate. So we obviously don’t have a great handle on ourselves when it comes to our masculine and feminine energy.
Sarah:
Confusion. It’s really interesting. I mean, actually as, as we speak, I realize, again, as I have done many times that almost the miracle of that masculine and energy, feminine energy working together, because I know like, you know, that a business that’s just got all the ideas and got all the data and all the science and everything doesn’t go anywhere without the people and without the spirit of it. And I know that that is the piece. I think what’s interesting is like, in my own business, in my own area of expertise, I can answer all the questions, but in this, where there’s this kind of masculine energy and feminine energy, I can’t answer all the questions. And so that’s a very different role for me. And really that’s the thing to appreciate almost, is that smallness actually, what it’s really speaking to is the fact that I’m able to do something way bigger than I could do myself by allowing myself to feel small next to someone else. It’s like by allowing myself to work with somebody who is very brilliant, way more brilliant than me in that particular way. And I’m recognizing that when I was younger, I was often in a position where I was the leader or I, like I was always on top, I was top at school and all of these things. And probably it wasn’t easy for me to be in that position. And that’s perhaps why it’s sometimes a bit uncomfortable. But how powerful is that actually to be able to be somebody who brings, like I, as I said, I know the value of what I bring, but at the same time to be willing to work with people who are just fantastic at what they do and enable, to be able to enhance what they do by bringing what you bring. I mean that’s the, that’s synergy. That’s the joy of working and creating really, isn’t it? And if we think I have to, when I think, and I’m sure I grew up with this, like I’ve got to be the lonely hero. I’ve got to save the world or I’ve got to do it all myself. Of course I’m going to feel small when I realize I really cannot possibly do anything that is profoundly meaningful to me without all the other people who make that possible. But I think it’s some of that hero complex getting worked out here.
Matt:
Yeah. And, and the other thing that was interesting with what you said then is you were describing your business partner as being brilliant. Okay? But then you added brilliant in his field. Okay. So therefore, why wouldn’t he also equally say that you are brilliant in your field? Okay, so we assign the word brilliance and creativity or excellence to things that are very tangible I think, you know.
Sarah:
It’s the same story.
Matt:
It’s the same story. Whereas, whereas the things that aren’t so tangible that we’re good at, we don’t say that that person’s brilliant at those particular things. So there’s something in the way that we assign a value to these things that I think that could be hardwired and very much misguided in the way that we might have learned things over the years. So I think there’s something in that, that we don’t feel that because we are not the, the facts and figures and the, the brilliance and the creative solution and that sort of type of stuff, as you say before, that is brilliant because it’s tangible. Whereas what we bring is not tangible, not seen to be brilliant, but without it, it’s not going to make it work. Do you know what I mean? And this is, and this is the masculine feminine ying yang put it together and that makes it whole and it makes it come to life and creates something that couldn’t have been done in, in two separate parts. I certainly see the, feel the power in that and that’s what I’ve learned. I’ve had to learn that contribution, otherwise I would’ve always felt a little bit inadequate. And then the second thing that you spoke about is this, I was thinking it’s probably in my words rather than your words, serving, being second in charge, being a good lieutenant sort of type thing in terms of being that person that sits there to serve and honor that brilliance for example, or that thing. Now that’s also probably a label that we assign to ourselves as opposed to what other people might sort of see it in the wholeness. But there’s something in that that I can feel, that the world attributes a value to something just because of the fact that that’s the way we’ve always seen it.
Sarah:
Yeah, I think that’s absolutely right. I mean the masculine and feminine aspect is definitely coming out and there is no question that the feminine values and way of doing things has been, not ignored, but has been less visible and less, deemed less valuable traditionally than the masculine. And we know, you know, we know that we’re paying the price of that. And it’s really clear to me that bringing them together is extremely powerful. Like it’s, it’s incredibly creative. And it also helps me to understand with you, funnily enough, because I realize that you, you in our business, you’ll tend to be more of the, you know, bring that masculine energy in because you probably feel it’s totally lacking when you’re surrounded by four women and it feels so alien because it’s not you, I know you can do it, but it just doesn’t feel like you, so I’m like, oh my goodness, who is this person that’s like, that’s not my friend. That’s probably what I get caught out on is that so, so there’s an interesting kind of energy there. But I, what I wanted to say about this cultural thing is, I guess, you know, my whole life in a way has been about bringing these intangible, though I talk about energy and spirituality and the energy of money and things. Everything’s been about that intangibility those kinds of messages have been suppressed through long history just as healing has been suppressed. In Germany healing only became legal in something like 2003, you know, I was running healing sessions in 1999, not in Germany clearly. But if you think about that, that’s the history. If you think the extents to which both the feminine and the mysterious and the intangible have been severely, severely suppressed, it’s probably not surprising that there are, there are still traces of that. And I guess my whole life, that’s the world I’ve been in and so you get a bit of a kind of, you can get a bit battle-hardened without realizing it. I think that’s another thing that comes in. But you know, Tim, my business partner, he’s also, because he’s been, he’s so creative around ecology and environment. He has such deep knowledge and understanding of it. He’s in the same position that he’s always been fighting for people to understand something that’s completely obvious to him, but just isn’t obvious to most people. We’re in an environment now where more people are beginning to appreciate those things and it’s, it’s almost like a miracle, you know, to have a meeting where somebody understands and just gets it. We had that experience today where somebody got it just like that, saw the scope, saw the potential and appreciated it and it’s like, oh wow, I nearly cried in the meeting to have that feeling of somebody really seeing what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.
Matt:
So by actually turning up and playing your role, because the other thing that I also heard then is that we end up playing the role that’s required at the time. Like you’ll play the role in that business with Tim because it will balance Tim up. Tim also, I know as a person and he’s a person that has probably still strong feminine, energy as well. He’s got a big heart and he’s a, he’s a, he’s a, you know, cares about so many things and can show up in that regard. But we know his true value in this business is going to be, you know, in what we spoke about before with the heart.
Sarah:
With the heart.
Matt:
That’s right. With the heart. Yeah.
Sarah:
And then I can bring the heart, but with my mind. Because if I couldn’t understand what he’s talking about. Like I can’t, I’ll never be able to speak like him and answer questions like him, but if I can’t understand what he’s talking about, also we couldn’t work together.
Matt:
And that’s what allowed you to then probably get the message across so quickly is because you can actually almost act as interpreter for somebody who is brilliant in that particular regard. And then sort of talk about it in a way with heart to somebody who then fully understands it. And you were saying before about that I’ll show up in your business to, to maybe see that there’s a need, that there’s a gap or you know, that needs to be filled by somebody and say, hang on a minute, yeah, that’s all great, but we need to think about this to then be able to then move it along the way so we end up showing up in different forms based on being appropriate with what’s being needed. Because I see you show up in different, different environments as well. You’ll show up in Love To, in a different way that you’ll show up in your own sort of, Inner Wealth business, that you’ll show up, you know, in sort of as a, as a teacher and an advisor and an educator and a and as a mentor and all those things that you do. So we, we end up turning up in, in the appropriate way based on what’s needed. I see there’s a lot of that that goes on.
Sarah:
Yes. Yeah, I think, I think that’s true because I, I notice also that for example, if I’m teaching I can be very soft. And I can also, if somebody else might need like real clarity and kind of like, come on, let’s get on with it. Do it. Just get something done. So we, we are really capable of responding to different things. It’s very interesting that the small feeling isn’t here. Having kind of pulled it all out and examined it, I don’t really feel it. I, yeah, I’m just noticing that I don’t actually even feel that energy in me really. It feels just like, um, it’s, especially naming that thing about having so often been the top dog, that to simply work with somebody who’s so capable in an area where I would never have that capability is very humbling in a way to be in that position. And it’s very, I think that that’s very healthy. The small bit of it is probably the unhealthy side of like, oh, help I feel uncomfortable.
Matt:
Yeah. There’s a vulnerability with that. And I suppose when I’ve been in that situation historically with that feeling or that vulnerability, the way that I’ve overcome it is that I’ll, I’ll actually just create a task and then go and do, I’ll end up just doing it to, to move through that, that feeling to, to then say, well look, I feel vulnerable, I feel small, I don’t feel capable or whatever it is, or, you know, I need to, and then this is early days in probably my business life compared to now is that I’ll just say, right, I’ll, what do I need to do to, to move through this? So I don’t feel that vulnerability or that lack of capability. But that’s probably more at a, a certain level that we’re talking about rather than this, you know, this big purpose thing that you’re taking.
Sarah:
That’s a very masculine response.
Matt:
It is a masculine response. Exactly what I did. A masculine response is create a task, do it, and get on with it and move forward. That’s a very masculine way of dealing with something that probably is, um, has a feminine quality associated with it.
Sarah:
I, I mean I’m quite good at having tasks and getting things done because you have to in the end. But I noticed that what’s important for me actually is to be able to kind of hover in that place of vulnerability, or of openness and of not having all the answers because there’s something very powerful there. And usually if I can, if I can stay there and not run away from it, like everything would like to run away from it usually, but if I can just stay there, often the answers I get are much bigger than if I go into, okay, let’s just get something done. And what I’m noticing gradually, which is an enormous relief to me, is that bigger answers are not more work, they’re less work. I don’t know how to describe it and maybe other people will be able to relate to this. But yeah, the bigger the answer, the more free I feel and the more I feel like, oh, I just need to do this. I just need to move this here and this there and that little bit there and somehow everyone dances around that and does a whole lot of stuff. Whereas if I make it like I’ve got to do everything, if, if I get a little bit smaller, I get complicated and, and it’s like I’ve got to work it all out and then my head starts to spin, it’s like, oh no, I don’t think I, I it’s just everything slows down. So this has been a really interesting experience for me recently is to just hover in that place of radical openness and let something really big sometimes come through where a part of me would say, oh, you can’t do that. But actually I’d just say, yeah, I can. And that resolves a lot of things. So, yeah, this is, this is an interesting territory.
Matt:
And I understand that, that that, you know, if you go back into that, um, feeling small and feeling vulnerable and going back into that, that task orientated place that I was talking about before, you become very task orientated at the very detailed, granular level as you say, rather than sitting above it at the helicopter level that we talk about, where we’re actually sitting above it and say, we’re observing and going, no, no, no, no. You actually could quite easily, as you say, if you move the pieces around that particular way, everything will just flow nicely and there’ll be less work involved in it. I can see how that works.
Sarah:
Yeah. There’s a funny kind of thing that’s going on in my mind. Like, so you feel small obviously in a way that the, the resolution of that is to be bigger, but it’s not about feeling big. It’s that when, when, for me, what I’m experiencing is if I go to a bigger level in a way I could say I feel even smaller, but the small becomes more comfortable. I don’t how to explain that, it’s like fine to be small if, if that’s what you’re dealing with because there’s no way you could be, you could be big in that. And then I can find that Sarah kind of small ordinary Sarah who just is getting on with it and doing the best she can and showing up and recognizing that I’m not, I don’t have to be perfect. I’m never going to be perfect. I’m just going to do what I can do and I’m gonna manage my mistakes and other people will help me and I’ll help them.
Matt:
So what I heard then is, is this thing around saying it’s okay to fail?
Sarah:
Oh, I’m always okay with failing. I, don’t know, I feel like I got so used to failing. I, yeah, I think it’s perfectly fine to fail.
Matt:
That’s not that obviously.
Sarah:
No, no, it’s about like, wow, what if this actually happens, which is going to happen? You know, it’s like, it’s not even a what if it’s like this is happening, this is happening anyway and I’m a part of it and it’s in one way awe-inspiring to be a part of something big in one way. It’s, it’s so many things at the same time and one part of those things is it’s very small
Matt:
Is it, is it scary?
Sarah:
Yeah, very.
Matt:
And what’s that?
Sarah:
The unknown.
Matt:
Yeah. It’s, that’s the, scary is the uncertainty, isn’t it associated with, well what if it does happen? Well, yeah, it does happen. So, but what’s the issue with that?
Sarah:
I could think of a lot of issues. I’m not going to indulge the issues. Yeah. Because there’s no point I’m, I keep walking forward because I’ve learnt to keep walking forward. I yeah, I, I know, you know, I’ve said yes, I’ve been through the, oh, I’m out of this. I don’t want to do this. This is, you know, I’ve, I’ve done that. I said I’ll never do that again. I’m walking forward, yes, it’s scary definitely. But, lots of things in life are scary really.
Matt:
So you’ve got the courage and conviction to move forward is really what I’m hearing.
Sarah:
Yeah, I would say almost every day I just, it’s like I pick something up in me and I say, okay, let’s take another step forward. Let’s just do the thing that needs to be done today. For me it’s about keeping my heart, there’s a feeling that I can have where I just keep my heart open and moving forward.
Matt:
So it sounds like this, the feeling small thing is actually required to keep you focused, your energy about moving forward in the, in the right direction.
Sarah:
I actually think that that’s right because if the most dangerous thing for me is to feel big and powerful is like if, if I think, oh I’ve got this, that’s probably the danger moment because in a way I’ve never got this, but I am in this and it feels much better when I’m a small part of a very big thing than thinking, oh yeah, I’ve got control. I know exactly what’s going on. I know how to do this. So it’s like that’s when the I’m so clever bit comes in and, that’s a whole that that’s not a good place for me. I’ve discovered it feels great for a little while and then it starts to get more and more uncomfortable and in the end there’s a very small making something very small making happens.
Matt:
Well it’s good. So therefore you now appreciate that particular, when you feel that way, you go, oh this is good because it’s actually keeping me in, focused and in line with the next step and the momentum of whatever we’re doing.
Sarah:
So that small feeling is actually an old interpretation of the feeling of your heart being open, not having all the answers. Yes. As you say, being focused and moving forward, regardless of whether you have all the answers, that’s, there’s a certain feeling that goes with that and the small that is negative is like, it’s a kind of judgment of a feeling. That’s actually a really amazing feeling. Interesting.
Matt:
Yeah, it is. Especially around this concept of value. Because we are judging it based on a value that it’s actually a misguided value.
Sarah:
It’s actually, it’s really inaccurate. It’s exactly the place to be and it’s saying, oh, there’s something wrong with this.
Matt:
Well that’s great. So the next time you feel that, and the next time you say that it’s actually not going to have the same sort of meaning, is it?
Sarah:
Well, its interesting because I can feel it now. It went away for a little while. Now I can feel it, but it feels, it feels very alive. You know, that’s kind of like feeling radically alive. Because, because there’s an absolute acknowledgment that I’m not in control and I haven’t got this, but I am part of it. And that’s just the way that it is.
Matt:
Well, it’s really interesting. This has been a really interesting conversation as they all are. But yeah, it’s nice to go through that exploration process, which, which is what you’ve done. And thank you for showing up and being very, I suppose open and raw and vulnerable about, um, about the process that you’re going through and the feelings that you have because that’s all part of it.
Sarah:
Yep. I think it is just a part of it and it’s easier to share it than to lock it up inside. And it’s very helpful. I actually really feel different. Like, I feel that my judgment, the judgment was just a judgment and it was not even particularly conscious. It was just kind of like snapping in from somewhere and I don’t feel that anymore. So it was, it’s a really worthwhile conversation. So thank you for, for opening it up in the first place, for asking all the questions.
Matt:
Well, thanks Sarah. Is there anything else that, that sort of you feel like you need to say or close from this conversation?
Sarah:
Not really, but I, I feel that this, this feeling, this sense of being open and of not having all the answers and of moving forward and, therefore it’s very simple. I feel that that’s very much connected with purpose. Like I feel on purpose or, and I feel like I’m in my purpose when I feel like this. And I think sometimes we think that purpose is like, yeah, I know what I’m doing and it’s like there’s this heroic mech forward, but I feel way more in my purpose like this than if I have that kind of superhero stance. So that’s, I think, interesting to note.
Matt:
There’s a quietness to that I can feel too.
Sarah:
Yeah. There’s a quietness and a rightness and a kind of yeah. A not knowing and knowing at the same time.
Matt:
Yeah. It’s an alive place to be, as you say. Yeah.
Sarah:
Very cool.
Matt:
Cool. Thank you Sarah.
Sarah:
Thank you Matt. I very much appreciate it. And you.
Matt:
Thank you. Thank you.
Sarah:
You’ve been listening to the Spirit of Business with Matt Murphy and Sarah McCrumb. If you’d like some insight into the spirit in which you do business, a great place to start is by looking at your relationship with money. Find out more by taking the Money scorecard@moneyscorecards.app and we’ll be back next week.
