Many people are experiencing that their business feels a bit repetitive. There’s an itch to do something more but it’s hard to know what that might be. Some people even feel called to contribute more or at a larger scale than they have previously. How do you rise to that challenge?
Sarah:
Welcome to the Spirit of Business, episode number 99, Another Year of Doing Stuff with Matt Murphy and Sarah McCrumb.
Matt:
Hi Sarah.
Sarah:
Hi Matt.
Matt:
I just had a moment where I actually have a notepad that I just put a to do list on and scribble notes down during the year. And I noticed that it’s now January and I actually am at the end of the book. And just before I closed the book and started a new book, I actually went back and just flipped through every page and recognized that actually it was January that I started the book. So it’s was actually taken me a whole year to actually fill up this particular book. And it’s just, you know, conversations I’ll be having, it’ll be to-do lists, it’ll be things that I’ve notated while I’ve been talking typically. And obviously, you know, some people use this type of form of reminding themselves and that sort of stuff. I sort of isolate between having a notepad and not having a notepad.
And for the last 12 months, because we’ve been locked down, maybe it’s just suited me to have a notepad again. But the moment that I just had, was that I flicked through and I’ve gone, that’s interesting. I had this sense that there’s a lot of stuff there, but the stuff that I looked at didn’t feel to me like there was anything that was inspiring or that there was something that I’ve made a massive impact. It was just a whole lot of stuff. Okay. And I know deep down that I do make a contribution and I do do things on a daily, weekly, monthly basis for business owners for my own life. And there’s been achievements there. But when I looked at it, when I went through the book, it looked very flat for some reason and I couldn’t get my mind around why I felt that particular way.
Because this is the trickery of the mind sometimes, sometimes you feel like you’re making no progress and it’s a whole lot of stuff. And then other times you feel good because you feel like you actually are making progress. And it almost just comes down to a mindset and you can sort of talk yourself into, Hey, I’m doing a really good job making progress. And then there’s other times you go, I’m actually just doing a whole lot of stuff and it’s going nowhere. And it’s just an interesting concept that I just had and I just wanted to talk about that. Because I’m sure that we all go through this at certain moments of doubting what we’re doing and feeling like we’re just busy and doing a whole lot of stuff. But what is it really for at the end of the day?
And am I really living my life to the force that I could live? So all these things start to come up they were coming up in my mind. I was just noticing while I was flicking through the pages and I just thought it’d be good just to have a bit of a topic around that today to see what your thoughts are. Do you feel the same way? Do you go through these particular moments? Do you sort of keep a bit of a journal list to progress as to what you’ve actually been doing? And whether that’s a thing or not for you?
Sarah:
I was thinking as you were talking, I should have a look, I’ve got my book here, but it’s mostly just, you know, this is more the things that need to be done. Wow. It’s, it’s about a year old almost. Exactly.
Matt:
There you go.
Sarah:
A little bit less than a year old. This would be yeah, a bit less. But if I look at this, this is more things to do. It’s like, wow, I’m looking at the name of this thing and I had to really think about what it was we were setting something up. So that feels a very long time ago. I think that the really interesting question in here is about what makes a person feel that what you are doing or the year that’s just passed was really worthwhile and you used the expression before we started, another year of doing stuff, and does another year of doing stuff feel great to you or not? Because if it felt great, it’s like, oh, we’ve had another year in business, we’ve done this and we’ve done this and we’ve done this.
It might feel great to one person, because the giveaway words you used were massive impact. Like why do you use the words massive impact? Do you want to have a massive impact? I think these are really interesting questions. And they’re words, you know, we often, business people talk all the time, oh, massive impact. What does it mean? And do you want to have a massive impact? And then if you do, is there a way to escape the another year of doing stuff? Is there a way of having a massive impact rather than another year of doing stuff? So it’s a very interesting area.
Matt:
And it’s funny that I wouldn’t even, I didn’t even hear myself saying massive impact, by the way. So it’s interesting that you’ve picked up on those particular words. So, because when you said massive impact and going, I didn’t need to have a massive impact, but, you know, it’s kind of that contribution thing because as you say, massive impact sounds like it’s a very dramatic big thing that you know is great to do. But is that the frame? Is that the way that you are judging yourself on that, unless you’ve had a massive impactful year, then really you actually haven’t had a year where you’ve done much and there’s just been a whole lot of stuff and this is this judgment. And I think that there’s an element of mindset and judgment around, well, did you have a great year? Didn’t you have a great year? Why do you think that particular way? What was your frame? What was your reference point to that? What did you set out to achieve? All these things come up, um, you know, then age comes in and, you know, where are you at with what you want to do in your life? And I don’t, it just becomes a bigger conversation.
Sarah:
To me. Those are all the things that come up. I like, I think we have those feelings because at a certain level it’s true. If I look at what I’ve been doing and it feels like yeah, I mean, I can always say it’s good. I can always say I’m having an impact. I can always say I’m benefiting people. There’s no question about that. But I can look at it and say, yeah, I did a lot of stuff.
To me, that’s an indicator that I am off track for myself because one of the things I’ve learned several times over, and I think probably might be learning again in a way, is that you can always do good stuff and that’s valuable. And there’s nothing like, I, for me, first of all this is a very individual conversation. Everybody has to have their own thoughts about this. But I know, for example, with the experience I have, I could always do, let’s say healing work, helping people with their problems. And I also know that it’s an almost the, the bucket of problems is endless and that I can dig my hands in there and I can find it interesting and inspiring and enlightening as a teacher. That’s one of the things I think that we are very good at. You know, it’s always interesting if you’re teaching, there’s, I never ever feel like, oh, I’ve been here before. But if I look at it from that frame, it feels like there’s something missing when I look at it in a bigger frame or start asking better questions. This is what I always come to in the end it’s like, when I start to ask better questions, I come out with different actions that would make me say, wow, that wasn’t just another year of doing stuff.
Matt:
Yes. And I think what I find is that we have to be reflective on different levels and as you say, you can look at this particular level and say, no, that’s a good year because I’m, you know, teaching and healing and doing, making a contribution to people. And I can say the same thing as well in terms of the work that I do and there is a contribution, there is a progress, there’s all these things. But I look at that and say, is that enough? Is it, you know, is it where am I really doing as much as I possibly could? But then you also, the selfishness comes in and say, well, why do I actually have to do so much? Why can’t I just have a calm life as well at the same time? So there’s a lot of these things that, that start to come in. I find when you, when you really start to question this and it’s right, it’s about the questions you ask. And maybe that’s what I’m grappling with at the moment is to say, well, where is it that, you know, what are you doing? Where are you at at the moment, is it really what you desire to do? Do you want to have a bigger impact? Are you happy you live the life the way you’re living it? So, you know, questioning across every angle of what you do.
Sarah:
And I think the really important thing that really, that sits behind this whole line of questioning is about going beyond your own life. Because it’s so easy to look at, okay, so am I living the life I want to live? But if you start to look into the future, you might be living the life you want to live now, but is that going to last? Are your kids going to be able to live the life they want to live? And then immediately we start to have to look at a much more collective perspective. And we realize that we don’t operate as little islands and our families are not little islands where as long as my family’s okay, it’s okay because it’s not necessarily. And so I think there’s a very big shift from that kind of island view to recognizing that we are a collective, as a species, we’re on a path that doesn’t appear to be a good path, it’s very clearly not a good path.
The only reason I say it doesn’t appear to be is because there is a lot of change happening at the same time. And you know, we don’t really know what other people are showing up for. But so, so I think that it’s the most natural thing in the world at the moment to question really, who am I? And am I really contributing in the way that I could? Like I feel everyone should ask that question. Because it’s rather like, like I look at it sometimes and think, oh my goodness, most people here are living as though they’ve been told, you have this diagnosis of a disease you’re going to die of in six months time or something, and you’re just doing everything you possibly can to live life as normally as possible. And I understand that. I can understand why one might do that if you felt like, well, I have no option.
I’m going to die in six months time anyway, so there’s nothing I can do. But there are people who say, hold on a moment, that doesn’t have to be the case. Or maybe I don’t want that story. Now, they may fail, but some people succeed and there’s something in the human spirit I think that is called to the bigger challenges. So I feel all of us are being called to a bigger challenge. And when you try to look at it in the frame of business as normal, that challenge looks like, well, I couldn’t make any difference. I’m too small. Or there are many, many reasons, or we fall back into a comfort zone. But if you forget all of that and you actually look at, well, there’s this challenge in front of us, what could I contribute? Or how would I love to make a difference? There are many ways of looking at it. You’re going to come out with different answers. So it depends on the questions you ask.
Matt:
You just hit on something that I probably maybe didn’t recognize in the year that was, where you spoke about that diagnosis situation where, you know, we’ve been living with potentially a diagnosis that you’re going to, you know, become very ill in the next six months, so to speak. And what that does is it makes you become introspective, makes you become protective and, and self kind of, you go back into your own world a lot more and therefore you become insular. And I think that, you know, what I, what I’ve just, what I’ve just recognized then is that, and this is also for business owners as well, that I’ve recognized everybody’s become a little bit fearful, introspective and protective of their own selves, their own lives, their families and their businesses because of what we’ve been living with in the last sort of two years of a pandemic, so to speak.
And because of that, you’ve probably not thinking big picture future, you know, sort of altruistic environmental, you know, the challenges that our children are going to face and those sorts of things. You’re just basically going, well actually I just got to live for now. Get through what I’m getting through because we’re in this quite difficult phase and we just have to keep focused on that to get to the next, to come out the other end of it. And maybe that’s why there’s this overriding feeling that I look at the last 12 months and it just looks like a lot of stuff.
Sarah:
If I, I was, it was interesting that you, you turned it from what I said, I I, I had said you’re sick and you’ve got a diagnosis that you’re going to die in six months. But it was interesting what you said. You said, oh, you’re going to get sick in six months, which is a very interesting example. If somebody said that to me, I think that I would do the opposite. I would start to pay much more attention to being healthy. I would start to learn more. I would start to be curious about what I don’t know. I would start to look at, well obviously whatever I’ve been doing wasn’t working very well for me, even if I thought it was. And so where do I go? And I think that you are usually that kind of person too. You ask a lot of questions when you don’t know. I get it. That I think a lot of people have at exactly the time when we need to be doing the opposite.
Matt:
Yes. Probably what I was trying to articulate is that we’ve gone into protection mode. Okay. To try and, you know, go introspective is, is to sort of protect what we’ve got, our businesses, our family, ourselves in this particular way. It doesn’t stop us from questioning, but it’s just more about the fact of maybe we become, instead of being a bit more long sided, we became very shortsighted in what was in front of us and just dealing with it. And so we weren’t sort of, and, there’s probably a sense and it’s a personal thing that I, I I’ve lost a little bit of that creativity about going, hey, this is what I create. This is what I could, this is the future. This is something grand or something big. I haven’t been dreaming probably. If I really start to think about it from that point of view, I’ve just been going, I just have to make sure that, that we just protect everyone and everything through this particular period of time. Our businesses, our families, ourselves. And so you’re not dreaming as much anymore. You’re not creating as much, you’re not thinking about the world’s problems in 10 or 20 or 30 years time for your children because you’re just dealing with the here and the now. Because that seems to be a big enough challenge to deal with from that perspective. That just sort of came to me then in, in terms of this conversation.
Sarah:
Yeah. And it’s really clear to me, and this is just from experience, that those times when we feel the most pressure, those are the highest impact times for development, for evolution. Those are the times when we need to go out, when we need to open up, be more receptive, because that’s where really powerful change happens. So to, to go into protection mode is just, is like completely the opposite of, of an effective way to behave. It’s understandable. But yes, this is what I’ve learned through my life through and, and I’ve seen it time and time again, is wherever the pressure is, that’s where the gold is.
Matt:
And I’ve always sought probably solace and joy out of that creative space. So if you’re not in that creative mindset, it, it doesn’t feel great from my point of view. And so therefore I like to, if I feel, you know, quite down or not really feeling like things are going that well, then you can get into this sort of, you know, dark space. And I find that if I have hope about something that you’re building that’s got more creativity and joy associated with it, it helps to lift you out. And that’s why what you’re saying is so true that if you can, you know, even on an individual level, that if we can start to, to create and plan, it feels that’s the time when you do it, when you’re under the most amount of pressure or when you’re in that sort of fearful place and protective place because that’s where we need to be. And that helps to get the momentum out of that.
Sarah:
Totally. It changes the experience completely that, you know, you used the word dreaming a couple of times, dreaming is really important in these times, because when people lock themselves in and they stop dreaming. And when we stop dreaming and we start to focus on what’s going on at the moment, what we do at an energetic level is repeat again and again and again what’s going on at the moment. So it’s almost like we’re creating the future or we’re influencing, shaping the future, let’s say. We don’t fully create it, but we’re shaping the future from the present. So how we feel, how we think, what we are thinking about, what we’re paying attention to, what we’re giving energy to, that’s actually what shapes our future. So when we’re under pressure, it, it’s the time when we need this incredible discipline to, because the pressure is happening always because there’s change going on.
There’s, there’s an evolution going on. So we’ve had pressure, a lot of pressure for two years. This is a huge evolution that’s taking place at the moment. It always feels messy when things are evolving, but if we retreat into this protection mode and stop dreaming, well your experience is very much affected by that. So I’ve learned, and I was trained by my Chinese masters never to do that. And so for me, times, when there’s real pressure, is times when I know that it’s really important to be open. I know that how I think can feel is shaping the future. So even if it feels really terrible, it’s like I look very actively for a place where it feels good. Not a Pollyanna place, not an ignoring like I think you totally have to face what’s going on. But I inform myself a lot and if there’s a huge problem, then that means there’s a huge problem to solve.
That means I have to step up. Like it’s not about, oh, I can’t do this. I’m too small. My business, my business, our business is way too small. But I can’t say that it’s like, no, then we have to, we have to do whatever we can to contribute and to be part of the change, to make the difference, whatever. There’s plenty of quotes around for that. And two things happen as a result. One is that you actually do shape both your own future and you contribute to shaping the collective future. The other thing is you can actually feel good at a time when everyone else is feeling terrible.
Matt:
When you’re talking about that, the word discipline does come into mind and we’ve spoken about that a lot and sometimes it’s self-discipline in terms of the fact that you can sort of say, hang on a minute, I’m not going to give that energy and oxygen. I’m going to actually make sure that I, I, focus on, you know, the creative solution of what the vision of I want to, to go towards rather than where I’m at. But then other times you might need some perspective because you don’t have perspective yourself. And I find for me, and I see this multiple times and I do it for many other people, and you do it too, Sarah is providing that perspective. And so therefore to say, well, hang on a minute, yes, you are here, but yes, you can sit here and, but, but where do you dream to be or where do you want to go to or, what’s the future look like for you?
And, and that, that takes if, if you don’t have the internal discipline and encourage maybe to, to get yourself there. You need to find strategies and solutions I find to ensure that you can get that perspective and move you forward. Because a lot of where I started this conversation was it’s around perspective. Okay? Because I can sit here at a very flat perspective and say nothing. I just did a whole lot stuff and then I can sit from another point of view or you can sit there and go, well, hang on a minute, what about that? And you go, oh yeah, actually we are moving forward. We are actually being creative and moving towards where we want to go to. So this perspective, things are really, really important part of I think allowing us this, this way of moving forward in the right direction rather than just like you’re talking about that, that circle that goes on.
Sarah:
But I think this is a very controversial thing to say and what I’ve learned for myself and I see it in other people and people would probably not like it. I think that when we feel those things, they’re true. We can say all that other stuff and it makes us feel better and they’re true as well. But if those questions are coming in or those doubts are coming up, I think that they should be listened to.
Matt:
And I think you’re a hundred percent spot on and I am listening to it right now rather than ignoring it and not trying to con myself into the fact that I’ve had a, you know, a year where I don’t see, I don’t want to repeat that year last year. This is, this is the kick up the bum, so to speak. Just by just looking through that, that book I’ve gone, okay, yep, did some stuff, achieved some things, move some things forward, that’s all great, but for me it’s got to be more impactful. I’m obviously getting a message, like you say, don’t ignore it, listen to it. If you need a kick up the bum, that’s your kick up the bum to go forward from that perspective. I agree.
Sarah:
And it is uncomfortable. There’s no question about that. Whenever I’m in that place, and I’ve experienced it quite recently, feels like it’s coming out a bit of the other side now, but you know, who knows it, it is uncomfortable, but it’s not nearly as uncomfortable as being in that kind of very contracted place. And the results down the line are not nearly as uncomfortable. Like, I, I never want to impose what I think on other people, but I more and more feel that there is something in human beings. You know, we can talk about human spirit. There’s something in us that actually does call us to a better version of ourself. And I know people who teach and you know, are really committed to, you know, just like having a, an ordinary life and all of that. But I see that they’re not satisfied. And when I, when I look around and I see the people who listen to that call and for everyone it’s different.
You know, there are no rules about what it should look like. It doesn’t have to be massive impact. It’s the call that’s inside you to give more or to contribute more or to be more not on a drive, like, I’m not enough, I’m not enough, I’m not enough. It’s more like an invitation from life. There’s stuff going on in the world and you are being called to make a difference to the stuff that’s going on in the world because that’s what makes us as human beings feel really alive. That, that’s it. And we have to learn things like, maybe what we’re learning now is that it’s not about being the hero, the Gandhi or the Mandela who goes out and saves a population or whatever. Maybe it’s about us working together or maybe it’s about something we don’t know at the moment. Maybe there are many things we don’t really know. But to be on that edge, that kind of leading edge of your life, that’s where people experience joy and beauty and freedom and those kinds of things. Not when they stay in the place that feels safe and protected. And I’m not talking about putting anybody at risk, it isn’t like that. I’m talking about listening to what life is calling inside you. That voice, that something that says there’s something more to you. That voice for me is, is worth listening to.
Matt:
You said something then that, that I can’t help but think about as part of conversation and about being uncomfortable. If there’s a calling and you constantly feel like you’re called towards something bigger or you want to make a bigger contribution, and you spoke about those grand people that have actually made some significant contributions to the world, do they always feel uncomfortable? Do they always feel like they’re compelled to do more? That they’re, that that’s their motivation, their drive because they’re constantly going, this is not enough and we need to do more. Do you find that that’s the situation for people that are constantly called to do more and to do better?
Sarah:
No, I don’t think it’s like that at all. I think that the more you listen to the call, the more fulfillment you experience, the more satisfaction you experience in the moment, the more present you are, the more you have to be present. Because actually that, that kind of voice, that invitation usually takes you way out of what you are personally capable of. And so you let go of all the stuff, all the identity stuff and like, I’m really good at this and I’ve got this skill and I’ve got this CV and I’ve got these, whatever all your credentialing does, you have valuable skills. Yeah, you’ll use them, use your valuable skills. But it’s in, it’s in that place where you actually start to really enjoy life. It’s completely the opposite of what everybody thinks. Yes. Sometimes like making the decision or sometimes, sometimes when we ignore that we feel uncomfortable and it can be like, it feels a bit crunchy when you’re sort of like, oh, okay, yeah, I can see I’ve been, there’s something I’ve been looking for and I couldn’t recognize it. I didn’t know what it was and now I’m beginning to feel it all that kind of, ugh, I’m, I’m, I’m trying to find my way into the unknown that can be uncomfortable just because you don’t know. And you’re used to knowing sort of, or imagining pretending that, you know, you don’t really know anyway. So that can be a bit uncomfortable, but that place is way more comfortable than the places where people keep themselves safe.
Matt:
So the, it’s kind of the impetus to get the journey started, but once you’re on the journey, then the fulfillment sort of overrides it, is what you’re really saying there.
Sarah:
Well there, there are always periods of expansion and periods of contraction in life. There’s life. It’s not like, oh, now we’re going to get it right. It’s not like, oh, okay, now I’ve got the formula so now I can get it right. It doesn’t work like that. This is life. This is like rich and textured and goes over so many different kind of layers and storylines all playing out at the same time. So you might have other periods where you feel contracted. That’s, that’s what I notice because there’s another, perhaps a bigger step happening or perhaps you’re letting go of something that you’ve been holding onto for lifetimes or that’s like in your, in your DNA, your parents, your grandparents, your great-grandparents, they were all like this and it’s not going to work anymore. And that’s, that can be hard in the process. Like, I don’t even know what I’m letting go of, but there’s some change that’s happening. But this is life. Like life was never gonna be something other than that. There are, there are, there’s expansion and contraction, there’s up and down, there’s warm and cold, there’s all these different things. But how you feel with all of that is quite different. When you listen, let’s just say you listen to the small voice inside of you instead of all the loud noisy voices in your head.
Matt:
It’s really interesting. And I just sort of had a recognition that I see people that are very purposeful in life. I look at them and I feel that there’s this, they’re in this constant disturbed state where they’re frustrated, they’re not getting to where they want to get to and they’ve got to, you know, they could be activists in, you know, in environment or change or, or in some sort of something that they feel passionate about. And I see that fueled by frustration. But you’ve sort of said no, that’s not necessarily what it’s fueled by. So, and I kind of get that now.
Sarah:
Yes
Matt:
There’s a hesitation.
Sarah:
Some people are fueled by anger and againstness and things like that and I’m not talking about that. But for example, I will often express something that I feel isn’t right. But, I do it because I know that expressing it is going to resolve it or is going to make a difference. And other people think, oh, there’s something wrong. I don’t see it that way. I just see it like, I know that I need to talk about this so that, so that it’ll change. But other people interpret my experience through their lens and I don’t mind, I don’t feel great all the time. I don’t mind that because I know that not feeling great is great. Like I know that these are really important moments. I’ll sometimes express it partly because I know it’s important that other people realize. Because sometimes people think about somebody like me, oh Sarah feels like amazing all the time. They just make that assumption. But life is, I just say it again, life is much richer than that.
Matt:
No, it’s interesting though. I think it’s been interesting to have a conversation from, you know, and I think that the purpose of really this conversation from my point of view was really it’s the feeling a certain way to create that momentum for change and not being fearful that you’re going to, or if you embark on that particular journey, you’re going to be in this constant state of frustration and uncomfortability.
Sarah:
No, that tends to be interpreted because that’s where you already are.
Matt:
Yes.
Sarah:
So that’s why you see that in other people is because, it’s where you already are, that’s what you see. So no, it’s not like that. And maybe that, there’s a real kind of breakthrough moment in that, these little recognitions are actually very, very important. Because sometimes we just notice it’s like, oh my goodness, I’ve always felt that. Of course, then you’re not going to want to go that way. But if you realize that that’s the path to everything that you really care about, everything that makes you feel like, wow, this is what I’m here for. This is me, I’m alive, I’m present. That’s where you find it.
Matt:
Well that’s been an interesting conversation from flicking through a diary at the start of this conversation. I felt the conversation we just had then and, and probably unpacking some of the, the worrying that, that I’ve probably had to, to then work out, oh actually now understand potentially why maybe we don’t have as big a push to do things. So it’s, it’s actually been an interesting conversation, Sarah, from that perspective.
Sarah:
And the motivation comes with that. The new kind of motivation, not the old driving motivation for goals and achievement and all of that. There’s a, the new motivation is a much more intrinsic motivation and it’s much less about yourself, and that grows, it just grows naturally over time.
Matt:
That’s interesting. Well, I appreciate the conversation because it certainly, it changed my perspective and, and thought process about what I was thinking, you know, before this conversation. So thank you.
Sarah:
Thank you. You’ve been listening to the Spirit of Business with Matt Murphy and Sarah McCrumb. If you’d like some insight into the spirit in which you do business, a great place to start is by looking at your relationship with money. Find out more by taking the Money scorecard@moneyscorecards.app and we’ll be back next week.
