What are the elements of a great relationship with money? Money links with the way we work, our sense of purpose and our organisational ability, as well as the transactions that move money from one person to another. It’s very revealing to look deeply into your personal relationship with money.
Sarah:
Welcome to the Spirit of Business, episode number 74 Insights Into You and Money with Matt Murphy and Sarah McCrumb
Matt:
Hi Sarah.
Sarah:
Hi, Matt.
Matt:
The topic that I’d like to talk about today is about your relationship with money, and I know it’s an area that you spend a lot of time on and talking to a lot of people, and so do I. And you’ve introduced me to this particular topic in the past because a lot of the decisions that are made in business are very much centered around money. And a lot of the time when we start to talk to business owners and they start to talk about the decisions they’re making, I’ll start to delve a bit deeper into that, to understand why they’re making these decisions they’re making in business. And so you know, I’d like to really talk about the elements of the relationship with money that people have and what’s fueling some of these decisions that they’re making, good, bad, or otherwise. So I know that you’ve got some sort of a money scorecard that you actually use and maybe that’s a great way to start in terms of the elements of that particular thing to unpack what is their relationship with money?
Sarah:
It’s such an important question because money drives so many things under the surface. One of the things that I notice is that often people will be feeling edgy and they’ll say, oh, there’s something wrong with my relationship, or there’s something wrong with the world, or there’s something wrong with something else. And actually, they’re worrying about money and they can’t even put a finger on it. So I think when we are worried about money, especially what, doesn’t matter how much you have, but, but if you’re worrying about the decisions you make, it can affect so many other things. The money scorecard that you mentioned is actually a really good place to start because it’s, I think it’s the simplest way that I’ve come across really to look at money, which is just divided into four sections. And I came up with those four sections, or those four elements because what I’ve recognized from working with so many people is that their personal relationship with money is the most important thing.
I noticed actually this, I especially notice with accountants, not with you. I think you’re an exception, but it’s really common for me to meet accountants who will say, oh, you know, I organize everybody’s money, but my own money is a complete mess. They don’t take care of their personal money. And what I found is that if we have the right relationship, a personal relationship with money, then that flows into the business. But it doesn’t always flow back the other way. You can, there, you can do business a certain way, but if you haven’t got the personal part sorted out, you’re probably going to end up in trouble in one way or another. So when we come to our personal relationship with money, the four things that I look at are money itself, your actual relationship, your beliefs, and your feelings and your thoughts about money itself.
That’s the first one. The second one is work, because most people, to most or quite a large extent, work because of money or money is a major factor. Either in the fact that they work or how they work or how much they work or where they work. It’s always playing into that, you know, we do work in exchange for money on the whole, and so work is a really important part of it. The third part is purpose. And so it’s really why, and it links money and work together. Why are you doing what you are doing? Why are you making money? Why are you making money this way? How do you feel? How much are you aware of a sense of purpose and how do you feel about it in relation to money and how we bring money and purpose together?
All these kinds of things. And the fourth is about people’s financial organization. It’s simply, you know, what kind of level of organization, because I meet many people who are really chaotic about money. They, for example, people who don’t want to look at their bills or don’t like looking at their bank accounts, or don’t keep records very clearly and it’s because they don’t want to look at what’s going on. So those are the four very pragmatic, very simple kind of ordinary everyday elements that I’ve found to be key in our relationship with money. And if we get those working well, that will have an enormous impact on business. And actually, it will also have an enormous impact on your family life and your relationship with yourself, and how you feel about your life because it links you and your sense of value and your contribution, all the things that make us feel good as human beings.
Matt:
Since you introduced me to the topic and, and that I’ve read your book and that you obviously had lots of these conversations in the past, I’ve, I’ve often spoken to the business owners that, that I’ve looked after over the years to, to ask these questions about their relationship with money. And it’s really interesting the sort of feedback that I get a lot of the time. And it can actually, depending on the circumstance or the situation, you’ll get different answers. There’ll be common themes, but you’ll get different answers depending on, you know, the stress of money. And, and I remember one of the things that, that I was taught many years ago is whether you’ve got a poverty mentality or an abundance mentality. So therefore, do you think that money’s a limited resource or, is an abundant resource that comes through? And that’s a really, I think that that kind of really struck me as a fundamental piece of a relationship between yourself with money.
And I had to think about this personally, and, and I remember probably growing up thinking that that money was, I probably had a poverty mentality that money was, was limited in resource. And over the years I’ve started to understand that there’s an abundance associated with it or a different psychology around that. And, and probably started to discuss these things with other people and other business owners. And it’s been really interesting to get the response. But one of the really big things that happens all the time when I talk about this is the word fear comes out. So there’s a real, there’s a real element of fear that surrounds money or, and, and not necessarily the money itself, but it’s probably the lack of money in the future or the losing of money or it’s, it’s that sort of, that that creates some of these concerns around it and then probably drives some of the decision making in businesses.
Sarah:
Yes. Yes. And I, I remember during the, the recession in 2008, hearing about somebody who was a friend of a friend of mine who had lost a lot of money and been left with a hundred million or something, something crazy, but all he did was worry about money, worry about losing money, you know, and it’s like you hear these stories, and so time and time again, I, I’m reminded that the fear is not about, doesn’t connect with how much you have on the whole middle class people are afraid, very wealthy people can be afraid, very poor people can be afraid. And fear is, I think it’s almost universal around money. It’s really interesting to see that. I mean, I guess money, health and relationships, it’s all, it, it’s those three, isn’t it? If you, if you feel like your health is really threatened, fear kicks in very fast and money is the same. It, it’s a very basic thing. And for me, the sad thing about it is being afraid doesn’t work well, it doesn’t work well in, it doesn’t make you healthier and it doesn’t make you wealthier it, if anything, it’s either going to be neutral but far more likely it’s actually going to have a negative impact.
Matt:
Something that you just said then that I reflected on is around this, the fear, and it doesn’t matter whether you’ve got, whether you’ve sort of got no money at all middle class or sort of have an abundance of money, is that fear is an emotion. And a lot of the time it’s irrational. And a lot of the time that people’s thoughts around how much money they need or worry about what they’re going to lose is irrational. And I see this time and time again as well. So I see wealthy people have this fear and this, and it’s a real protection around, I can’t lose this money, but the reality is it’s probably more than what they could probably spend in their lifetime anyway, so it doesn’t really really matter. But there’s a fear around it and I, and I never, I never,I never degrade that. I never sort of, you know, say, well, that’s just stupid thought process or that’s just irrational because it’s rational for that particular person and it’s real for that person. And I think we have to be really sensitive around that sort of type stuff as well. Yes, we, I can introduce the concept and say, okay, worst case scenario, you’ll be down to like to that particular person, the, the, your last hundred million.
Sarah:
Extreme ones.
Matt:
I might sort of kick into gear to say, you mate, you might be okay with a hundred million, but you know, you might be, but for other people it might be 10 million might be the threshold or 5 million or 1 million or, you know, there’s different thresholds for different people based on their circumstances now that threshold becomes fluid. I get that because once you’ve got a certain level, then you feel like you need more and more and more for other particular things. But, I wanted to really talk about the fact that the fear is real at every level. And I know people that are right on the breadline that are actually, you know, that, that have had circumstances where they’ve been injured and they couldn’t work and they’ve got no insurance and they’ve got no money coming in and they’re relying upon charity and they’re relying upon people’s good nature to, to look after them just to put meals on the table. So that’s a real fear because that’s, you know, putting meals on the table, you know, is a real issue compared to the person who’s worried about the hundred million dollars, which is a completely another issue. But they’re feeling towards it is probably very similar.
Sarah:
Yes, and like it’s, it’s not even a very easy thing to talk about. I get it. It, it’s a very real fear and I get it. I, I can remember all the times when I’ve been generally worried about money, even if I was quite good at pretending that I wasn’t, but there’s a kind of grumbling feeling underneath and you can feel it and other people can feel it as well. It’s almost like a smell or something that comes out of you, whether you are wherever you may be hiding it. A lot of us hide those fears a lot of the time. But, and you know, we know this particularly when people are trying to sell something when they’re afraid, they’re actually afraid they’re going to lose the sale or they really need it. Everyone in business is very aware of that smell, so to speak, which is the smell of fear if you like.
The thing I think that is really important to start to look at, and this is something we need to do widely, like we all need to look at this, is to look, look in a broader way. So you can feel afraid if you’re looking at your money and your money’s going down. I have lots of people, for example, who’ve maybe left a job and they’ve got some savings and they’re now becoming self-employed and we’re, we’re going to see more and more of this. And so their savings are going down because they’re not making money yet. And that is scary because you’re seeing something that you thought of as a pile of something and the pile is diminishing and you don’t know when it’s going to start increasing again. And that shift to being self-employed, it doesn’t always just burst into a, you know, abundance.
It can be quite a big journey for a lot of people. So if you are watching that, all you can feel is this sense of diminishing wealth or diminishing resources. And it’s a really interesting thing that at an energetic level if we, if we are very focused on what’s diminishing our life seems to feel like it’s shrinking in on us. I’m sure that most people have had that feeling. It’s like, wherever I look my life is, everything’s diminishing. And then you see that and you get more and more focused on the diminishment of things and maybe you start to not feel well or something, you think, oh my goodness, now my health’s going as well and what’s wrong? And you start to look at what’s wrong and at an energetic level when you do that, there’s a direct link between those experiences and when you’re able to see with greater abundance, it actually changes your experience directly.
And this is not really taught in business school at all. Obviously it’s taught much more through a lot of personal development in various ways. For me, the thing that is so important if we are looking at wealth because we are looking at money and money links with wealth is that we start to look at the real wealth that we’re experiencing and we start to count the things that don’t always have a price on them. And you know, even in the scorecard, some of the questions that I ask are things like, you know, how much do you enjoy receiving money? How much do you enjoy spending money? Because enjoyment, if you can enjoy your relationship with money, if you bring enjoyment into your business, you are not going to feel that diminishment and contraction that goes into fear. You’re going to feel enjoyment, which is a more expansive experience, which means you have more expansive thoughts and ideas, which means you take more expansive actions and you are able to enroll more people into them because they’re not like, oh my God, here’s this needy guy running this business and he just needs me to kind of prop him up.
It’s like, here’s a guy who’s actually enjoying life and has got an expansive view on it and wants to do something bigger and I’d love to be a part of that when you can feel the shift in the energy. So this is very, very real stuff that we’re talking about. The relationship we have with money is not just how do I feel about the amount of money I have, it really directly influences your money story in the future.
Matt:
What I was thinking of then when you were talking is, is the concept of paying payroll and because clearly every week, fortnight or month you pay payroll for your team as a business owner. And do we ever sit back and, and, and celebrate the fact that we actually are paying payroll, a lot of the time we don’t because it’s getting back to that diminishing the,
Sarah:
The pressure.
Matt:
The pressure and the obligation associated with it. But when you were talking, I was thinking about the concept of actually celebrating the spending of money to do multiple things. One is it supports the person and their family. Secondly, they support the business. So therefore, and supporting the business is a good thing and also supporting the clients or the customers of the business as well. So,
Sarah:
And then those people, who you are supporting their family, they then support other families because they go and buy food from the grocery or whatever, they’d go and buy clothes for their kids and then all those other people receive that money. So it it, it allows them to have that same pleasure as you have if you can see it that way.
Matt:
That’s right. And this is the point if you can see it that way, because you’ve got a view of a relationship around money and if your view and relationship is that you are worried about the you know how much of it you’ve got all the time or you know, protecting it all the time, you’re not necessarily looking at it from the perspective of what creativity it’s actually doing. Okay. Now we’ll sometimes look at that in terms of okay making profit or you know in terms of the products that we’re producing and the creativity associated with that. But, and we do celebrate our people, don’t get me wrong in terms of a lot of the time with business owners, but that concept of actually spending money by paying a person to contribute to the organization and just that, that moment in time of looking into that and saying, that’s a really cool thing as opposed to I hope I’ve got enough money to pay, you know, or whatever else might come up at that particular point in time, or that’s a lot of money to pay in payroll, for example.
So I think that’s it. It’s, it’s just another example of how we can view money and our relationship and how to start to, to look inwards to say, well what is our relationship with money? Because I think it’s a really, really good question and it’s one that you’ve taught me to pose a lot more. And I still struggle sometimes and I’ve got, you know, still got personal issues with how I think of money and those sorts of things. And I’m okay to spend money on other people for example, but I have a very difficult relationship with spending money on myself, you know.
Sarah:
But you know, that’s what, this is so a really important thing because if you think about a relationship with a person that’s, say if you are, if you have a primary relationship in your life or relationship with kids, you don’t actually expect that to feel good all the time. You know that part of a relationship is there are going to be times of contraction and times of expansion times when you really don’t get on very well with each other or the kids are being difficult or they’re going through a difficult phase or your partners just having a rough time in their life at the moment. And there are times when everything’s much more fluid and much more enjoyable. And that’s natural. We all know that that’s the same with money. So to me, it’s completely natural that you would go through times where your relationship doesn’t feel so great.
I have the same, often I notice when I’m kind of, it’s like the, I’m being pushed to expand. I actually need to expand my relationship with money and my capacity. I usually go through a phase of feeling rather uncomfortable about it at first because it’s like where I am isn’t enough anymore. And it’s not so much that I just need more and more and more. It’s that through the things that I want to create in my life, more resource, I need more resources to be able to do them. A lot of it’s not particularly personal and some of it is, but, so that’s where I feel the pressure points. I think most people are the same.
Matt:
And so then I’ll look at it and go, well is it a relationship with money or is it a relationship with life and money is the enabler or is the resource that we use to, to deal with that? And I, I’d like your thought around that.
Sarah:
Oh that’s such a, that that’s a really big question. You know, when I, when I wrote my book, Love Money, Money Loves You, and just to explain for anyone who hasn’t come across it, it’s like not quite a conversation with money. It’s like money was talking to me and that sounds really odd to somebody who hasn’t read it probably. It’s like the energy of money or the, it was like the spirit of money, if you like, was actually talking to me. But I was writing it down and, revealing to me what money is from a very different perspective. And it changes the dynamic. It changes the way that you think about it. And I’ve just forgotten the question, Matt.
Matt:
Oh, that’s okay. It was just more about saying that with regards to when I start to think about,
Sarah:
Oh Yeah, money or life.
Matt:
Is the thing, you know, is it money or life? Is it, is it money or is it life, you know, that we’re talking about?
Sarah:
Well this was the fascinating thing, you know, it described to me itself to me, like I, this is money, this is what money is, it’s this beautiful energy and it connects human beings together and you know, it enables us to make a contribution to the world really and exchange our gifts. So, we can relate to that fairly well. In the very first message that I wrote down that completely came to me out of the blue, one of the sentences that intrigued me at the beginning. It said you will something like you’ll receive not only me but life also.
Matt:
Mm-Hmm
Sarah:
And I didn’t understand what that meant at first, but what I discovered is when you start to actually look at your relationship with money and then you discover that money is way more alive and dynamic than, you know, dead coins and bits of paper and transactions in a bank account, it really is this flow. It’s a kind of flow of power around the planet and between people. It, because when you give money to someone else, you give them some power to do something. So it really is a flow of power. You start to see that and then you start to see that it links very directly with our wishes as human beings. Like I want, doesn’t matter, like I want a fancy boat or I want a farm, or I want to give money to make clean water in Africa. These are desires that we have as human beings.
And if I say I want that, but there’s nothing I can do about it, it’s like nothing happens. But if we say I want that, I really want to do that, we will find ways to make money in order to do those things. So our desires for our life, which is our, our wishes, the things that we wish for in our life directly link with the activities that we take, which link with money. And so what I discovered is that in a way, money as an energy is very closely connected with life. And when you start to look at your relationship with money, you will inevitably look at your relationship with, with life, first of all because you will look at your relationship with work which you spend the largest part of your life is probably spent working. You’ll look at your relationship with yourself, that’s really important.
But you’ll also look at your relationship with your purpose, your sense of purpose. And that’s where we start to, that’s where we feel fulfillment as human beings when we, we feel we’re making a contribution. It doesn’t have to be huge, it can be small, it can be big, it doesn’t matter. And so yes, money directly connects with life. I think it’s useful to think of both of them connected, but also separately, my relationship with money and then my relationship with life. But they are much more closely linked than we would usually think in the first place.
Matt:
What I see is that it gives you the opportunity to assess those elements like work and relationships and yourself by assessing using money as a way of assessing that is, I kind of see the link between the two there.
Sarah:
Oh, now you understand my scorecard. That’s exactly, because it tells you far more than just like money, it tells you far more than the numbers
Matt:
And then you have these aha moments you go, ah, that’s why I think that way. Oh, that’s why I make these decisions repetitively. And, and because it’s more information and data to say, oh, now I know why I get this result all the time. Or I think it because it’s what the way I think about things. So it actually helps, any knowledge that you have about yourself I find is helpful because it then works out how not to repeat, say bad behavior or not great behavior. And you touched upon it a minute ago, it’s about having a healthy relationship. We want a health, we always want healthy relationships, okay, no matter what we’re talking about. And really what we’re trying to achieve here obviously is having a healthy relationship with money. So is it worth asking that question of you to say, well, what does a healthy relationship with money look like? You know, when you do your scorecard and you get a result, what are we ultimately trying to, you know, understand from a scale to say you’ve got a dysfunctional, unhealthy relationship with money compared to one where you say, actually no, you’ve actually got a really healthy relationship with money or somewhere in between.
Sarah:
Maybe it’s useful to look at both ends and look on those four different categories since we’ve been mentioning them all the way through. So let’s look at the actual relationship with money, first of all. And if you have an unhealthy relationship with money that the symptoms of that would be lot of worry, fear no enjoyment. Like it’s, it’s hard. You don’t like thinking about it. It’s like it’s, it’s like having a husband or a wife who you really dislike or hate or don’t even want to speak to. That’s the worst end. And so money is never seen as a benign influence in your life. It’s, it’s a negative influence, it’s a pain, it’s something that causes you distress and for many people it’s something that doesn’t work for them. It’s like, money doesn’t work for me. So it’s more like an enemy, you don’t feel that it’s on your side. A really healthy relationship with money,
There’s a sense of love which is not connected with greed because, because you recognize the power that money can give you in terms of first of all, self-expression but much bigger than that. It’s, it’s money is a great enabler of contribution. So we, it enables us, like if you want to have healthy kids, it’s really hard to do that if you can’t even afford to buy healthy food for them or live in a healthy home. So from the most personal to if you have, if you want to, if you are running a business that has a mission to impact a million or a billion people I mean you wouldn’t even think of doing that without huge amounts of money. There’s like, so you need to have a love relationship with it so that you are willing to receive that money and spend it.
There’s an enjoyment in receiving and spending both. There’s a, like you actually what you talked about with paying payroll, you really recognize that the beauty of doing something like that and the beauty of your capacity to be someone who can pay a whole lot of other people. And that in itself is an amazing thing. So there’s this sense of a healthy relationship with money would look rather like a healthy relationship with a partner. Love, enjoyment, relaxation, you’re not fundamentally worried. So it’s very creative. You feel like this is a power in my life that enables me to do more than I could do without it, that’s for the money piece. If we look at the work part, it’s a little bit of a, a similar story, but generally an unhealthy relationship with work, which plays into your money thing is working really hard, burning out not enough energy or your energy’s all over the place.
You don’t have consistent energy, no enjoyment at work. You feel like you’re just working because you’ve got to or working at a job that you hate. All of those kinds of things where work doesn’t give you fulfillment it doesn’t feel good. And it’s especially what I notice is around the energy piece, if your energy is all over the place or difficult, usually there’s a problem with the work itself and with your relationship with work. Whereas a healthy a healthy relationship with work, somebody is able to be tremendously productive but without working hard. So there’s an enjoyment and a lightness in it and a kind of fluidity. Obviously there are going to be better relationships around them because if you really want to be very productive, you need to be able to work well with other people as well The, and there’s a tremendous sense of enjoyment, like, work is enjoyment.
I would do this if I wasn’t paid anything at all. It’s my absolute pleasure to do this. And that’s kind of like, it’s, it’s obvious when you think about it. It’s just sometimes we don’t perhaps think and of course the energy piece is you have enough energy to achieve whatever it is you set out to achieve. You don’t sit there and think, oh I’d love to do that but I’m never going to be able to. You say, I’d love to do that and your energy grows with you. To me, that’s a healthy relationship with work. And then if we come to purpose an unhealthy relationship with purpose is probably no sense of purpose. Don’t want to think about it, don’t talk about it, totally confused about it. So, so not really a sense of fulfillment in life. You don’t have to have reached somewhere to feel fulfilled.
You can feel fulfilled in what you’re doing now on the way to achieving something, and also very unfulfilled in your work because your work isn’t fulfilling your purpose. There’s no link between work and purpose. The other one that we get a lot is people who have, who hate money, have a very strong sense of purpose, but they don’t, they can’t connect it with money. There’s a, there’s a lack of health there if purpose and money can’t connect because they can’t fulfill their purpose, they can’t do much because they’re not willing to receive money and, and operate with money, so we, I see that a lot. And healthy, a really healthy relationship with purpose is somebody who is, they really, they know that what they’re doing is the right thing for them. They feel completely aligned with their work. It might be super challenging,it might cause them stress in a way because it’s really challenging, but they, they kind of relish it.
They take it on because they know that that’s just a kind of push point for them to grow. There’s a very different relationship with stress and, and really healthy, purpose and money are best friends with each other. You know, you welcome money, you’re really willing to engage with it at every level in order to make things happen. The things that you would love to see happen in the world. And, and then of course in order to do all of those, you can’t be disorganized. If you are disorganized, that’s, that’s just going to create really unhealthy relationship with money. Just like being disorganized creates an unhealthy relationship with your body if you have no discipline, no organization. So we need that, just fundamental self-management, financial management, organization ability to deal with that. And it’s really important in your personal life, in your personal finances because then it will flow into the rest.
Matt:
I reckon that is a fantastic summary of all aspects of, you know, ourselves and what we should be, you know, thinking about when we’re thinking about relationships across the board, whether it’s with other people, work purpose or you know, the, the organization as you say the, the discipline of it and you know, I think we can all learn more about this and, you know, doing that scorecard sounds like it’s a great starting point to do so because it starts to give you some reference or unpack some information about yourself that you may or may not been aware of that was subconscious, but now becomes conscious because you’re actually seeing it, and you’re asked a question, you’re posed a question and you give an answer to it that you may not necessarily have been posed for before. So I, I love these questionnaires, I love these,
You know, anytime you do a, some sort of profiling, it gives you such a great insight as to you as an individual that you may not necessarily have recognized or had because it becomes more black and white and I, and so whether you agree or disagree with it, it’s still more knowledge and data that you may not necessarily had before. So I think you know, I’m always telling people to invest in themselves, to understand themselves better because the best relationships, if you, you’re looking to get the best relationships, I always think self-awareness is a key cornerstone for that. So the more you understand yourself, the better you’re going to have relationships with other things because there’s that greater self-awareness. And so I think it’s a great thing that you’ve got this scorecard, absolutely encourage everybody to do it because it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s knowledge and knowledge is powerful and I think that’s really a good starting point. And from there we can start to unpack this to say, well, okay, I can then in business know why I’m making some of these decisions and gives you the ability to change that if you’re not getting the great, getting the best outcomes from that. So I think it’s a great thing.
Sarah:
Well, if you imagine having a great relationship with money, like I talked about, what impact would that have on your business, that’s for you to play with, for each one of us to play with? What impact would it have if I had a really great relationship with money, how would it change the way that I feel about money, the way I operate around it? How would it change the way I work? How would it change my sense of purpose, my organization, all of those things, and how would it change the impact that I make in my business and the, the achievements of my business, that’s the imagination piece that’s worth doing. So the starting point is to do the money scorecard. You can find that at https://moneyscorecard.app/, money scorecard, dot app. It’s got 40 questions and they are, what I can say is that when I see the answers to people’s questions, I get an instant picture of their money story. So to me, they are the right questions to be asking. They’re very illuminative if you just take a little while to answer those questions.
Matt:
That’s the beginning of the…
Sarah:
That’s the beginning of the beautiful thing to start to think about. Yeah, what can I do if I improve my relationship with money?
Matt:
So I find when I do those things that the question itself actually gives you some self-awareness where, because you’re going to have to answer it, and therefore you’re starting to already get a, a picture of, you know, relationship with money, but also there’s a report. I’m assuming that that comes out the end.
Sarah:
Yes, you get a report.
Matt:
It’s always handy to know.
Sarah:
Exactly.
Matt:
Yeah, from that point of view, I think it’s good because it gives us this sense of knowledge. And knowledge as I said before, is a, is a powerful thing. And I think the more that we can have a great relationship with money, it becomes an enabler. But more so you, you said that, you know, you’ll have a better business or you know, you’ll be able to achieve things and I, but personally I think most of us are striving to become happier, more at peace and contented in our lives. And I think that it actually helps to do that as well.
Sarah:
Yes, if you look at all the descriptions I gave of a great relationship with money, work, purpose, organization, all of those are really about happiness, fulfillment, more joy, the things that we really care about and how convenient it is that money happens to go with them.
Matt:
Well, I think it’s been a great conversation today once again about thinking about money and your relationship with it and then how can we actually have a better relationship with it. And to do that you need more knowledge and this is a great way to start that journey or continue that journey in terms of having a better life really, fundamentally and that’s what this podcast is about, the Spirit of Business, having a wonderful life whilst enjoying running businesses.
Sarah:
Thank you very much, Matt.
Matt:
Thanks.
Sarah:
You’ve been listening to The Spirit of Business with Matt Murphy and Sarah McCrumb. If you’d like some insight into the spirit in which you do business, a great place to start is by looking at your relationship with money. Find out more by taking the Money scorecard@moneyscorecards.app and we’ll be back next week.
