Matt turns the tables and interviews Sarah about her very personal story of starting and growing her business. They explore some of the issues around money and being a business owner that have most challenged Sarah and how she overcame them and found purpose and direction in her business life.
Sarah:
Welcome to the Spirit of Business, episode number 54, A Personal Story About Business.
Matt:
Hi Sarah.
Sarah:
Hi Matt.
Matt:
I want to do something a bit different today. I actually want to interview you about your business and to really focus on, you know, you as a business owner and why you went into business in the first place, what you’re trying to achieve in business. Because we often reflect about the people that we work with, but sometimes we don’t reflect about what we are doing. And it’d be really good, I think to give a bit more background as to, you know, your business, what you’re trying to achieve, what you’re doing, the purpose of it, your background. I know that’s a lot to sort of discuss and unpack, but just think it’d be really good to have that insight because I know you, you know, for a long period of time and sort of know the background, the history, and I think it’s a great story and I’d really like to tell that story today, you know, and focus on you as the, as the person that has built this really interesting business based on your experience and knowledge. So, maybe the first question I could ask you is that you know, how did you get started? Why are you doing what you’re doing at the moment? What’s sort of been the spark that actually created where you are today? Or is it just a, just a natural morphing of a whole of experiences to where you are today?
Sarah:
I don’t think there’s a single starting point. Because it seems to me that there are so many things that have happened in my life. Often things that happened that pushed me. Like, if I would really say, why am I in business now? It’s because I came to Australia and I didn’t have any money at all, and I didn’t know anybody here, and I wasn’t going to go and get employed by a supermarket. So I didn’t really have a choice. Because in those days, which is not so long ago, it’s only nine years ago, I didn’t identify myself as a business owner or as an entrepreneur. I, I just didn’t have that picture of myself, when I first started a sort of business. I didn’t even know that it was a business, but it took me, it was more than 10 years before I even realized that that was a business. So that was, that was some time ago. So but, you know, why am I in the business that I’m in? That’s a whole different story. So the way I see it is that there are different things that have come together over my life. And gradually those different threads have woven together into where I am now. And I now feel like I’ve brought together most of the threads of my life, and they’re all part of one tapestry, so to speak, which is what I’m doing at the moment.
Matt:
Oh, I suppose it’s interesting that you didn’t identify yourself as a business owner to begin with. And maybe the best way to define what you were doing was earning a living fundamentally, like, you know, you were doing things to, to get paid to ensure that you are able to, to pay the bills that you needed to pay in a new country that that you found yourself in. So from that perspective, I, I suppose that was a, a, an interesting definition, interesting way to look at yourself as an individual. And now you sort of see it beyond that, that you are, you do identify yourself as a business owner running a business. And, you know, was there a, was there a moment or was there a shift, or what was it that that really made you sort of see yourself differently to what you were before? Because I think there’s something in that in terms of a journey of a business owner.
Sarah:
Yes. And I see it a lot, especially for women. I think I would say, if I’m really honest, it’s only the last couple of years that I’ve, I think, openly accepted to myself. Not only that I am, I’m running a business and, you know, before that I was coaching, so I was really very much self-employed. I didn’t have anyone working with me. So over the last couple of years, I started to have people working with me that, that makes a difference. And I started to see it as a positive identification, or simply as the reality. And a lot of that also happened because I used to have this view that because I didn’t really understand business, I, that’s, I, that’s what I felt like I don’t understand business. I felt I was making really bad decisions all the time, but I was doing the best I could.
And I realized that that itself was actually getting in the way more than the decisions I was making was my perception of myself. And that if you think you are doing it badly, it makes you do it much worse. And it’s not about thinking you’re doing it well when you are not. But I started to recognize that there were quite a few things that I was doing quite well and that other people didn’t necessarily do as well as I did. And it wasn’t so much about the comparison as actually admitting to myself that you are not completely off in the things that you’re thinking and the way you’re doing your business. There are things that are not working yet, maybe, but that’s fine. Probably most business owners can say there are things that are not working yet. But I just had to change my perception of who I was and how it was working because it was so difficult to be fighting against myself all the time, even if it was pretty subconscious.
Matt:
Did you think that there was a moment in time then? Because what I just felt when you were talking then, is that, that you identified a uniqueness and was the uniqueness the bit that actually tipped you from feeling like a self-employed person? So there’s two elements of this. There’s a structural element where you say, working for myself, employing myself effectively to do, to coach and whatever, to then employing somebody. So therefore there’s a structure and there’s a, there’s something that’s greater than yourself. So there’s a structural element, but was there also a psychological element where you found an identity through a uniqueness?
Sarah:
Not so much. ’cause I think I always felt the uniqueness. I knew that what I was doing when I arrived in Australia, which is where, at least in my more recent history, where, you know, I had to work, I had to make money and it was my business. It wasn’t, I wasn’t working for somebody else’s business. I came into a place where what I was doing was different from what anybody else was offering that was obvious from the very first day. And so that was quite attractive for people. I charged twice as much as anybody else did in the area right from the beginning. And I think that was probably a wise decision. And what I did brought something fresh. And then later when I went to America especially and was running retreats in America, I saw the same thing. What I came in with was something really different.
And it was very fresh for people. It was quite, it was very sharp and very clear. But it was different from what they were used to. And there was this feeling of relief in having a different voice, different energy, different kind of tone in terms of what we were doing. So I think that I, I’ve known that. So it wasn’t that, I actually remember it was probably around February, two years ago. I remember this thought dawning on me that was recognizing that if I could accept that I am in business and that I’m not completely stupid, that I’m doing it and I’m building it and it’s growing and it’s working reasonably well and it’s going to get better, everything will be much easier for me. And I think that that’s been the case, that everything got easier for me after that. It was just one of those wake up moments where I realized that I was holding myself back.
Matt:
Because it’s interesting that you say that, because that wouldn’t have been my experience knowing you for that period of time in, in terms of you feeling that particular way. And I know that you’ve got experience with running businesses in New Zealand and in the UK. So you’ve actually had experience in running businesses historically before you came to Australia. And when you came to Australia, you know, you’re still, you know, definitionally still running a business, but personally not feeling that particular way. So it’s really interesting how we perceive ourselves and, and our relationship with our businesses that we have. And I think it’s worthwhile. It sounds like there was you know, the thing that we, we talked about before about imposter syndrome was, is there, is that involved in, in this conversation?
Sarah:
You know, you know what? I think it is, it’s taken me a long time to figure it out. I think when I was young, when we, when we, we used to drive a lot because my dad was in the Navy and there was always a lot of traveling. And when we used to drive to places, this was the kind of English snobbism at the time. I think if we saw somebody who was driving a fancy car or something like that, there would be the immediate assumption that they were in business, kind of new kind of business, not traditional old, you know, the aristocratic businesses and things. You know, this is quite a long time ago. And we used to shoot them. So we used to get like, put little guns out of the window and shoot people who were in business. So it was considered to be really vulgar.
And I used the word advisedly. That’s the kind of word that would’ve been used when I was a child. It sounds really weird now. It was considered to be really vulgar to be in business. Now this is very strange. I understand. Like my dad was in the Navy and was very much from a naval family. It was, it was public service completely. So I understand that though. He ended up in business, funnily enough, my mum came from a business family. Her father led one of the leading insurance companies, sold his business to Lloyd’s Insurance or something like that. I don’t know the details from a long line from right from the original days of insurance in the UK. He was in the direct line of succession of that. So she came from a business family, but that probably was a part of it, you know, family dynamics, no harm intended.
But my dad’s ignorance around business and this joke about people who are in business is vulgar, was probably a little bit of a jibe but my mom and her family without it really being noticeable. So I think at multiple levels, I had taken it, taken it on so subconsciously that business is, I, well, vulgar is the only word that comes to me. It’s not a word I ever use these days. And I don’t think I even realized that. So when I met business people always, I had this feeling like a really uncomfortable feeling with them in one way. I put them on a pedestal for years, I just thought, ah, they’re doing things that I can’t do. I also always, always had the feeling that I was missing a screw around business. And I still think that sometimes because there is, there are people who are natural entrepreneurs and they think in a certain kind of way, and they see opportunities in a way.
Like somebody said to me, oh wow, Sarah, you could run a caravan park on your farm. I just looked at him, it’s like, I would never run a caravan park on my farm. But he looked at it through a kind of business lens and, and I, I just thought I had a screw missing because I couldn’t see things like that. I just, I’m not, I’m not wired that way, but I guess you make peace with yourself in the end and realize that I see things the way I see them. And maybe that’s quite interesting for some people. And it’s allowed me to ask a lot of questions that I think perhaps other business owners aren’t asking.
Matt:
Well, it’s interesting because it comes from a different lens, as you say. And I probably grew up you know, my parents didn’t run businesses, you know, they, they, one was a teacher and one was in a bank for all of his life. And I, I look at that and, and I saw other businesses and I used to be intrigued by it and could see that there was just this natural, I put ’em up on a pedestal as well. I thought, oh wow, you know, running your own business, that’s pretty cool sort of type thing. So I saw it as a, a positive statement, not as a vulgar statement. And, and, and hence why I think I’ve always had a passion to want of be in business because I, I, as a child, I saw that there was a, there was sort of something that, that was, I, I really wanted to, I thought was a, a good thing and, and wanted to be a part of and, and see and put it up on a pedestal as you say. And so, it’s interesting how you come from a different lens and, and probably still feel the same way about it, that you, you want to be in business. But just it, it’s acknowledgement of when you are or when you’re not in business. I probably didn’t have the same sort of I’ve never had that identity crisis with business. I’ve always felt like I’m in a business when I’ve been in a business, if that kind of makes sense.
Sarah:
The thing that’s interesting for me is that when I was probably 30 or something, I was, I was working for the BBC and for BBC Radio as a freelance. So I was self-employed in those days. And then they gave this opportunity for companies or businesses to be producers. When I started, everything was produced in-house at the BBC, and then they started to outsource production. So I applied for you know, put in proposals for things and had them accepted. So I actually became my own production company. It wasn’t actually a company as such, I was self-employed technically, but I was doing it in that way, like a production business. And I didn’t realize, I seriously did not realize that that was a business. So I think that, and I go on about this ’cause probably I’m, this is quite a common experience.
It might not be that story exactly, but what went with that was a complete non-engagement with money. Because I didn’t grow up interested in money again. You know, this shows the power of culture. The British culture is very much, you don’t talk about money, money, politics, sex. Those are the things you, you don’t talk about them. And there was such a covering up not intentional on anyone’s part that I was completely separated from any sense of it. So I was running businesses. I started a business, like how many times have I run businesses in this weird state? It’s like I was made for it and couldn’t admit it. I started business in 2010 and I think we made a million pounds in our first year which is really quite a lot of money for a first year business.
We spent a lot as well. But the, all of that happened with this just like somehow trying to be engaged with the money. But I’ve never felt it. I look at other business people, I look at you even and you’re not particularly driven by money, but you’ve really got your eye on it. And I’ve had to learn that just like really learn it because it didn’t come naturally. And so with that kind of negative view of business that I had, and then this feeling like, oh, well I’m not, I wasn’t that interested in money and I don’t have this screw that everybody has that sees opportunities. So I’m like a, a not fully functioning kind of rather flawed version. Seriously, that was how I felt for a long time. I probably did cover it up quite well because in the end, the great thing about business is you just have to get on with it. It doesn’t matter what you feel like, it’s almost like who cares, there’s business to be done. There are people who need help here. And I’m, that’s the saving grace of me that I actually enjoy doing things.
Matt:
Well, well, interestingly enough, and, and there’s maybe irony’s not the right word, but maybe there is that you’re running a business that’s that talks about money and that were the things that you didn’t talk about as a child, right?
Sarah:
That was definitely a big turning point. I mean, writing my book about money which was, I’ll just explain it briefly here because some people might not have heard it, but I’ll just keep it short. What actually happened was I started, I found myself writing messages from money about money to me ostensibly. And then I realized it wasn’t really just, to me, it was to us as human beings. It was kind of all about what money really is and how much we’ve misunderstood it and what a beautiful, amazing thing that it is. And it’s very interesting. I had a conversation with somebody this morning who I just got involved in reading a little bit of the book and things, and she’s an auditor, very senior auditor in a very large organization. And she said, I, I just, you know, I couldn’t get to grips with this idea that money could be like something really good.
She said, it’s like, it feels like that’s wrong. To think like that, you know, that’s somebody running a large organization and involved with large organizations at the financial level and the thing that she’s working with, she thinks is bad. So writing that book at the time was an amazing experience without much consequence because I was in a situation where I wasn’t making any money at all then it was a rather protected situation. I was looking after somebody else’s property and I had everything provided, but it was a pretty much a cash free situation. So my financial senses were very suppressed at the time. But that was why coming to Australia was so such a turning point because I came there kind of armed with my book. That was the only thing I had between me and I don’t know what, failing to pay the rent.
And this book was saying, do things completely differently from how everybody says you should do it. And I started experimenting with what it said in the book and it worked. And that has changed my relationship with money. And, you know, the, the old patterns can still come out. If I, if I get into a bit of a switched off pattern I’ll switch off from money. It’s not my nature to go and look at it and to check it and things like that all the time. It’s my nature to always be thinking about people and you know, what they need and the creative side, all of those things are what come naturally to me. But I have found that paying attention to money makes an enormous difference.
Matt:
And hence, I suppose the relationship and, and what you sort of teach people about and educate is around the relationship with money. So I think it’s worthwhile talking a little bit more about that because it probably blends into your purpose. So probably worthwhile explaining what is the business and what are you, what’s the purpose of what are you actually trying to achieve for the organization, for the people that have an impact from it.
Sarah:
And this is actually a really simple business because it’s an educational training business. It’s teaching people things. It’s teaching people look on the surface of it. It’s all about people’s relationship with money. That’s how it’s presented from the outside. And absolutely we do that based on what I learned from my book, what I, and what I practiced for myself and taught other people and saw it work time and time again. So it’s built in experience with a lot of business owners, funnily enough, who were most, most of my clients. So it’s that, but what everybody talks about is the fact that it’s about so much more than money. And I think that’s the point. My, the book was saying, you don’t have to sacrifice yourself for the sake of money or your family or your, you know, your health and wellbeing, your happiness, all of these things, which traditionally we’ve tended to do.
It’s saying money is a lot simpler than you realize. And it’s about relaxation and it’s about enjoyment and doing what you love to do, not in an airy fairy fluffy way, which doesn’t work, but in a way that is really grounded and works. And so what it’s really about, and I’m coming to recognize this myself even it’s about our relationship with money as a path to vitality and thriving and ultimately as a path to a thriving society and a thriving economy. So really what I see here’s an expression from Buckminster Fuller about creating a world that works for a hundred percent of humanity. It’s a, a very powerful vision. And I do feel that that’s, for me, that’s what really counts, is that it is possible for us all to thrive. Look, you know, there are always details that are going to be stories.
People have accidents, and there, there are things that happen in life. It doesn’t mean everybody’s totally healthy and happy all the time, but that fundamentally the basis of our society is that it’s designed to, to support thriving human beings in a thriving ecosystem. It’s so obvious that that’s actually what we are designed for. We are not designed to be under the kind of stress and strain and the way we work and make money, which is so hard for so many people and so horrible, actually just horrible, people doing things that they hate doing because they’ve got to have money to support their families. And living these lives of kind of servitude and a kind of close to slavery, it’s just horrible to me, it’s like really quite disgusting if you think about it, when you think about. I look out of my window right now, I’m looking at trees that just grow freely in the fresh air and the sunshine, unless the nature is constricted around them. And that’s so clearly what we are as well. We are designed to grow and to thrive and to look for happiness and to have all kinds of experiences. I mean, it’s a very rich experience here on this planet, I think. But, so really that’s what I see my business is actually all about. I’m, I’m just here to help people have that actually. It’s about finding a kind of inner liberation so that you’re free to live on this planet, in this life and make your choices and live a beautiful life.
Matt:
And I see what you said before about it’s not fluffy. The tangibility of living a good life includes money. And that’s, that’s probably the essence of what you, what you teach as well. And it’s interesting that you, you are teaching about money from a background of not being educated naturally in the terms of money. So, one of the things that I recognized in myself was that I think I’m a good teacher and I think the reason why I’m a good teacher is because I struggled with learning. Okay? As a child growing up. And I probably had to work harder than most people to learn things, to be able to. And I had to learn in a certain way. And then I think that I can teach better because I actually had to struggle because it didn’t come naturally. Do you think that based on, you know, the, the history of you and money has allowed you to help people and educate people better because you haven’t come from that natural background.
Sarah:
Yeah, the irony is, when I was at school, I was the opposite of you. I was top in everything, and I arrived in life, having been to Cambridge University really quite unable to live. ’cause You can’t be top in relationships and you can’t actually really be top in making money and business and work and all those things. It’s just like meaningless. Just because you can get good exam results, it’s totally irrelevant. So but the things that I teach now, funnily enough, are the things that I’ve most struggled with in my life. Which is around energy. I teach a lot about energy. And when I first started learning about energy, I was really the worst person in the class. Everyone else felt more natural at it than I did. And I had to, it was more of a struggle for me for a longer time than almost anyone I know.
But I stuck at it. And the same with money. It’s not like, I don’t come from a really poor background. I haven’t had that kind of struggle. We came from a fairly typical kind of middle class, struggling middle class background in the early years because my dad, they were very poorly paid in the Navy, but not poor. So money was never really, really difficult in that way, but it was so hard for me to care about it and to engage with it and to really accept it in my life as something that I wouldn’t ignore and just hope that it would all work out. And that, you know, I can feel, I know so intimately the struggles of my clients, I just, it’s like I, I know that I know their pain so well because I’ve experienced, I have been really, really poor in my life in the sense of having nothing and living, living quite yes, having to live extraordinarily carefully. Yeah I’ve definitely experienced that several times in my life but perhaps not dangerously so.
Matt:
I think having experienced creates an empathy for people’s plights and struggles and, and you know, part of why the people that I support in terms of coaching, mentoring, advising, chairing boards or whatever it actually is, is because I can identify with them because I run my own business, and I’ve got the scars, you know, to prove. And so therefore I know inherently what they’re going through. And I think that helps so much with being able to then help people so much, if you know what I mean. So that, that’s why I think it’s a great thing to highlight that you, that you’ve struggled with things, you’ve overcome them, you now have taken them to a higher level, which then allows you to then be able to teach but not lose sight of the struggle at the same time.
Sarah:
Yeah. And at the same time, what’s really important about the teaching is not about overcoming the struggle. It’s actually about what’s possible. It’s about what you can create. It’s about who you can become. And that’s so much more than just not being broke or not being able to pay your rent. Or for many of my clients maybe being quite successful but not feeling good about it or feeling guilty about making lots of money or feeling guilty about inheriting lots of money, because I’ve also worked with people like that, that, but it’s about so much more than that. And that’s what, that’s really why I do it. I’ve done a lot of work in my life, which is healing essentially people of all kinds of things. And you can go forever with that. But it all starts to make sense when you connect with what can you create.
So when you have a relationship with money that really feels beautiful and feels generous, you don’t have to have endless amounts of it. It’s not about that, that will grow, you know, the, the flow of money grows over time. But the creativity that comes from that, which is, is like this feeling of aliveness and this feeling of, oh, I, this is, this is my life. And the freedom, you know, I talked about liberation, the freedom you experience in your own life as a result of resolving the deep conflicts underneath. That’s actually what it, that’s what’s really important. We come back to the thriving because if we’re thriving even on the way to thriving, we can, we can do so much. And sometimes we only want simple things. I don’t want really big things. Two days ago I swam, we have this big kind of, it’s a very big pond in Australia.
It’s called a dam or a small lake. I, I think of it more like a lake because I’m English at heart. But we swam in it before we thought it was too dirty to swim in it. And then, you know, to actually swim in this lake pond dam at the level of the water lilies and see the bees going into the water lilies, you know, and I’m at eye level with them. And to be swimming around the circle of the water lilies, that is such a rich experience. And it’s not about money, but it wouldn’t be possible. I mean, yes, we can all swim, but I was given that freedom because I engaged with money and I engaged with business and I engaged more with the really positive sides of it. And that enabled me then to have a farm, which has its own lake dam pond, right in front of my house. And, you know, that’s what’s important.
Matt:
So it’s an enabler is really what you’re saying is that it, it, you talk about liberation and freedom and we often, you know, reflect on, you know, I speak about the reasons why people are going into business and one of those is, you know, financial security and independence. And that’s that financial freedom that we’re talking about. So there’s the relationship that comes with money with that, because you can’t have financial freedom and independence if you haven’t been sort of focused or responsible around money. But equally, what you said before is true that you can have the money, but if your relationship isn’t great with it, then it’s not necessarily going to be liberating and it’s not necessarily going to be free as well. So it’s not, it’s not necessarily the amount on the volume, it’s how, how you, your really, your relationship with it as you say.
Sarah:
It’s really your relationship with it. And that’s what’s so important. Because I think it’s much more than an enabler. It’s that when you face your relationship with money and when you create a really good relationship with money, what happens is your relationship with yourself changes, your relationship with other people, changes inevitably from your partner to kids if you have them. I don’t have them, but other people do. And they always tell me how much their relationship with their kids has changed, to their employees or other people who they work with. So all your relationships change and then your relationship with life changes. So that was the thing that surprised me. I’d done a lot of work on health and wellbeing and things and that was pretty amazing. But it was only when I worked on my relationship with money that it started to open up all the other parts. I’m not even sure that I can say why that is yet, but I didn’t expect that, it, it opened the path for me to be able to experience joy really for the first time in my life properly. Like why, how did that happen with money rather than with all those other things, everyone’s chasing wellbeing and I’m almost wanting to stand with a placard and say, sort out your relationship with money. ’cause It will sort out so much else at the same time.
Matt:
Which is really interesting because if you think about, you know, your background around in the help of wellbeing space and you know, working under a Chinese master for 22 years and you know, sort of the education that you had, you really did invest a lot into working out how to live a great life. And you did all this work, which was obviously the foundation pieces for what you’re teaching, but the money sort of added another dimensional layer to it at another intersection point, which kind of is the, the bit that I see is the uniqueness of your business compared to what other people might teach in this particular space.
Sarah:
Yes. It was really like that the money added a layer that I never expected. It was like it opened a door to I think what so many of us are looking for. And it’s not that money is the answer, I’m sure there are many different ways, but for me it did that and it created a space within me where I could find that freedom for myself.
Matt:
So what we all think about, you know, our businesses and the impact that it actually has which is part of our purpose. If you could explain some of the outcomes that you’ve achieved for people, you know, the impact that you’ve actually had, what are the, what are the things that they’ve gained by working with you and the business?
Sarah:
The first thing that I hear all the time is people saying, I don’t worry about it anymore. I don’t worry about money anymore. And that’s sometimes when anyone else would think they should worry except that worrying doesn’t work. So maybe they’ve lost their job and they say, I lost my job recently, but I’m not worried. I know it’ll be okay. And that to me, I love to see that because I know how powerful it is to know that it’s going to be okay and to free yourself up to find solutions. But also what’s very meaningful for me is, and I think for people is when they say things like, my relationship with my husband is better. My relationship with my, my kids are more relaxed and happier. That’s what I hear a lot, which is so strange, really. But, but that’s how it is.
Everybody’s more relaxed around me. And then equally there are the money results from literally the woman who had $50 a week to eat from in her seventies had broken her hip and all these other things. And seeing her at her level, finding her way out of that. And I’ve seen her on Facebook since then, kind of doing all kinds of business things, you know, running her business and stuff, to the woman who said to me the other day I was applying for I think 2 million. I joined your course because I wanted to raise $2 million for the business that I’m running. She’s a c e O and we’re just closing on 5 million. And that’s also very satisfying. It’s not it again, like the money is great and the business is great, but what’s great for me is this feeling of confidence that she has because that goes beyond that particular, you know, money raising thing.
That’s something that she can take for the rest of her life. And that’s what I feel is really important is that we learn and we share the principles that stay with us beyond. I always think that the story of your life at the moment is your case study. So if you are struggling with money or if you have a difficult relationship, a complicated relationship with money, that’s your case study at the moment. And maybe you do your fundraising or you get yourself out of debt and that’s the result of your case study. But that’s not the purpose why we’re doing it. The reason why we’re doing it is so that you have this capability for the rest of your life to be able to have a really great relationship with money and with all the people around you and with your life and your purpose. Because that’s what money brings together. It brings all of those things together into relationship with each other. It’s how we contribute to each other. It’s kind of like the glue that holds us together.
Matt:
It’s certainly been great for me to sort of, you know, be part of, you know, this journey with you in terms of your business and see how it’s evolved and the defining moments of the business itself and, and, and the trajectory of it. And also the, as you say that the, the wonderful stories for the impact that you, that you have. And so I think it’s, it’s great to be able to see that and, and, and see that in momentum going. I suppose the question for, for me, for you is, well what’s next?
Sarah:
There are two main things that are next. One is simply more people also in more countries and in more languages being able to learn this just more and more and more of that. What I really want to see is people learning in groups. I feel very strongly that we don’t quite know which way the world’s going to go. And it’s really possible that there could be a period of instability. It might not, but it tends to happen. If people have learned about this in groups, they can remind each other and they will be able to come out of anything. Doesn’t matter what the situation is and they’ll be able to lead other people. I know that without any doubt whatsoever. So my primary mission, if you like with people, is for them to have this inner strength and connectedness with each other so that whatever challenges they meet in their life, whether they’re personal or they’re public or they’re global, they are able, they’ve got the principles and the practices and the foundation to be able to lead and to be able to find their way into a better world.
And the other thing is to be producing examples, actual living examples of businesses that do things according to the principles in my book. So I’m very involved with a, well, I’m co-founder of a business called Love To, which is about making it possible for people to do what they love to do, which is beneficial. Things like people love keeping fit and it’s really beneficial to them and to their family, to their employers, to their government, to everybody. But no one ever pays them for that. No one ever rewards. In fact, we mostly have to pay to do the things where we provide most benefits. So to switch that model around and create models of business that actually reward the activities that contribute to human wellbeing and human thriving and, and equality of life on this planet. And of course our environment as well to do that in a genuine way. And it, it’s about the examples. It’s not, it’s not time for philosophy. There are so many brilliant people talking about all the things that we should be doing, but I actually think it’s really important that we do it. And we might not be very perfect, but we actually get on and do it and learn as we go along, how to make this world that works for a hundred percent of humanity. So those are my things,
Matt:
Which is pretty awesome. So it’s, you can see that it’s very much about action. And I’d love to talk to you more maybe in the next podcast or a future podcast about some of this activity that you’re doing on the businesses like Love To because it’s, they’re novel ways of doing business and I think it’s really important because some of our models and our systems are broken and they need to be revamped. And I see that this is what you are doing as an action to live the life that you’re talking about. So it’d be great to be able to interview based on that particular topic too, on that particular part of the business being Love To business as well. But just, I think it’s been really good to sort of understand sort of, you know, the history of where you’ve been, the struggles and the stories with, you know, for want of a better word, the, the direction, the epiphanies and then the acknowledgement and then, you know, the momentum and then the success.
Because I see that that’s really the journey that we’ve had so far. And it’s only, we’ve still got a long way to go, obviously in, in your business. And there’s more to do. And if, I think it’s a great goal to educate the world on the relationship for money and you know, the, as you say, the more people that you can influence, the better, you know, the world’s gonna become because, you know, it’s a lot healthier from that perspective. So I’m loving, you know, you know, seeing and being part of this particular journey with you and so very grateful and appreciative of that. Is there any other message or comment or thing you wanna leave people with in terms of our conversation today? Because I think it’s been great in terms of that, that, that story,
Sarah:
I think it’s that word action. You wrote down action. Actually, I, rather you said the word action and I wrote it down and I thought what flashed through my mind was this little Cambridge University student who was totally in her head, who had no clue how to take action on anything and how much I had to learn to take action and still have to, it’s so easy to think beautiful thoughts and have amazing ideas. I could do that all day long, but to actually take the gritty kind of action every day to finish things off, to send them out, to see the response, you know, the stuff that you actually have to do in business to make it work. That was, that’s the real journey. I think the real journey is probably for all of us learning how to take action, learning how to take the right action. Learning how to develop wisdom in our action and keep taking action. Yeah. So it’s, that feels to me like quite a big change that I went through.
Matt:
Well, it’s been a good chat, so thanks for sharing your story, Sarah, and I’ve really enjoyed it.
Sarah:
Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity.
Matt:
Thanks.
Sarah:
Thank you for listening to the Spirit of Business with Matt Murphy and Sarah Crumb. We’ll be back next week with another episode. You’ll find the show notes with links and other useful information on our website, Spirit of Business Live. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with your friends.
